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Subject: CRANKSHAFT MODS
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OzroderUser is Offline
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18 Mar 2011 5:32 AM  

Well I stuffed up big time by ordering the wrong crankshaft!!

 I ended up with a crankshaft for the A engine when I wanted an SE Pro crankshaft assembly to suit my 2008 Fatboy B engine.

 How I got it wrong:

 I think I was so used to reading: 06 Dyna and 07 up Softail............................I did not look into the detail enough to see it was 06 Dyna & 07 up Touring in the SE2011 Catalog on page 45.

 The Crankshaft I ordered was: 23601-05

 I have been in the garage and measuring up everything and believe I can resolve the issue by doing the following:

 If I can get the stock crankshaft inner race set and the tools to remove and reinstall these then I will be able to keep the crankshaft but without the balancers..............which is not such a concern for me.........

 Parts Needed:

 1 x Inner race sprocket shaft side

1 x Inner race pinion side (to be used as spacer and machined to fit )

 Tools Needed:

 Flywheel Fixture: HD-44358 

Mainshaft Bearing Inner Race Puller/Installer: HD-34902-B 

Wedge Attachement: HD-95637-46B  

Sprocketshaft Bearing Installer: HD-97225-55C 

These are the tools needed to service any of the stock crankshaft inner bearings............. 

The sprocket shaft side is no issue as the stock inner race can be pressed off and refit to new crank. 

The new crank pinion side needs to have the supplied inner race removed............then a spacer made up and fit or pressed onto the shaft and then the original inner race pressed on to be in the correct position on the shaft............ 

 

Apart from all this heartache for myself.................I think it might be a suitable way to convert a SE Pro crankshaft to suit the Twin Cam B motors from 07 up as I dont think there are crankshaft assemblies available for this engine.............unless someone knows different?

 Pinion side inner race and sprocket need to come off original crankshaft.

 

Remove current race on new crank and fit the original sprocket and inner race and tack weld on.

 

Original thrust washer and inner race to be removed on sprocket side of crank..

 

Fit original thrust washer and inner race to new crankshaft in this location.

 

 

 

 



From the Ozroder fan club: Your Way Of! - Your a maniac! - Not sure if you are trying to "take the piss" out of us unintelligent ones! - Ozroder the Anonymous!
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HillyUser is Offline

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18 Mar 2011 7:06 AM  

shit that really sucks Oz...
 

 

Edit, looks like, you have to go up in stroke to fit your engine Oz, 4-5/8 instead of 4-3/8.     

Wonder why they dont have one? maybe you could flog the one you got?

If you can make it work then when its done the pain will be gone, someone has to go first :)

Feel for you bro.

 

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18 Mar 2011 2:24 PM  
Posted By Hilly on 18 Mar 2011 7:06 AM

shit that really sucks Oz...
 

 

Edit, looks like, you have to go up in stroke to fit your engine Oz, 4-5/8 instead of 4-3/8.     Looked at doing this too.......but if you look at the catalog reference.....these too are for dynas and touring only....................

Wonder why they dont have one? maybe you could flog the one you got? Yes, this was my first thought but need to see if there is an alternative

If you can make it work then when its done the pain will be gone, someone has to go first <img src=" align="absMiddle" border="0" src="/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif" />

Feel for you bro.

 


I think this bike is jinxed...............................
 

Ozroder



From the Ozroder fan club: Your Way Of! - Your a maniac! - Not sure if you are trying to "take the piss" out of us unintelligent ones! - Ozroder the Anonymous!
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18 Mar 2011 5:25 PM  

Dunno about jinxed but its giving you a run around!

Bro check this this out, sounds like an alternative for you

 

Screaming Eagle Pro Stroker
Flywheel And Rod Assembly – 4-5/8"
The Flywheels And Rods Are Manufactured From High Strength
Forgings, Fully-Machined To Their Final Shape And Balanced For
Smooth Operation. All Efi Models Require Ecm Calibration
(Priced Separately). For Race Application Only.
24100004 4-5/8" Stroke. $1,249.95
Fits ’07-Later Softail Models. ’07-Later Softail Models (Except
Fxcw And Fxcwc) Require Separate Purchase Of Screamin’
Eagle Big Twin Compensator P/N 40274-08.
 
smeemnUser is Offline
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18 Mar 2011 8:04 PM  
Wow what a mistake, recon you should cut your losses and order the right one.Maybe they will exchange give them a ring ?

Speed doesn't matter if the direction is wrong !
OzroderUser is Offline
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23 Mar 2011 4:46 AM  

This latest hiccup is all pretty new but I believe I will be able to sort it out very soon with the help of Randy (King of Cubes).............and I dont want a 120"" motor for the street................the 113"" will give me plenty of power to drag my big fat arse around with plenty to spare..............

I truelly have come to the understanding that there is an answer to any problem and it then just becomes a matter of time to find the answer..................

In searching out for the solution to this issue I believe I have found an option for others to use when they get confronted with this same issue:

I had originally contacted Darkhorse and TMan to buy a crank and both where a little unsure in their responses to me in regard to obtaining a crank to suit 07 up softails running the later model B crankshaft..........in fact I was very surprised at both responses..............which more or less stated I would have to have the late model B cases modified to suit the timken bearing conversion and then it would be possible to order a crank that would fit...............in America this is not such a big deal but in Oz there are not many (if any) shops that can do the timken conversion and if so, please pay!..........and I had the cases shipped to me already so this was a no go........plus the lefty bearing was already supplied with the cases and this bearing appears to be holing its own so another reason not to go to the added expense of the timken conversion.

Now, I found quite by accident that if you order the SE Pro Stroker 4.375 crank that suits 00-06 Dynas and 07 up touring models part no: 23601-05 @ 1249.95 less price offered by one of the aftermarket online stores in the US and have it plugged and trued................you now have the potential to have a superior crank than the stock unit that comes with the 96"" motor......

To get this crank to fit your cases you need to obtain the tools necessary to remove the inner races from both sides of the original crank and these are obtained from Jims-USA.

You press on the original inner races and if you want to keep the balancing system (I do) you fit the balancer sprocket.........and using Loctite 680 and/or TIG welding the sprocket and the inner race in a couple of spots........will give you a very reliable bottom end.............so when you do twist the wick you will be enjoying the ride and not be giving the crank a second thought any further.................

The timken bearing is of course the better option but I ordered all this mess from Australia and if I decided to go with the timken alternative I would have had to send the cases again there and back plus the extra cost of the conversion that it makes my stuff up very costly.

A note on crank balancing..................to me this is a must do when using flywheels and say H Beam rods or different rods to the stock units especially for the bigger engine sizes like 120" etc, otherwise you end up with a bike that runs beautifully at a very narrow rpm range and which vibrates the crape out of you any where else in the range for B engine cranks...............

The A engines are rubber mounted so lessen the vibration issues quite a bit................

I purchased the crank assembly, and the pistons from the same source and believe the crank has already been balanced to suit..............so hopefully I wont have any  vibration issues in my 113" build.

I will put up a thread on this build purely to show how a B motor with balancer is put together................STIX has already put up an excellent thread on his 120" build so there is no need for a duplicate thread as they would be almost the same except for my crank issues which I will show how I overcame and the balancer differences and maybe I will show how to set up the valve train geometry if I can get the camera in there.........................

Ozroder



From the Ozroder fan club: Your Way Of! - Your a maniac! - Not sure if you are trying to "take the piss" out of us unintelligent ones! - Ozroder the Anonymous!
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Krash KinkadeUser is Offline
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23 Mar 2011 6:04 AM  

Oz Cow at L A Cyles has done many timkin bearing conversions & his prices are always reasonable.

i have another mate that makes everything himself he would not use Jim's tools would make his own, just takes time, Australia has some smart people just hard to find, they don't have web pages a web page does not make a person smarter. Oz all you get useing what 1 million others use is the same.

 

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23 Mar 2011 6:07 AM  
Good stuff Oz, keep the updates coming in my book bro.

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23 Mar 2011 7:13 AM  
Posted By Krash Kinkade on 23 Mar 2011 6:04 AM

Oz Cow at L A Cyles has done many timkin bearing conversions & his prices are always reasonable.

i have another mate that makes everything himself he would not use Jim's tools would make his own, just takes time, Australia has some smart people just hard to find, they don't have web pages a web page does not make a person smarter. Oz all you get useing what 1 million others use is the same.

 Hey John,

Glad you weighed-in here as I was hoping you might.  Knew Cow's shop is pretty well-equipped and thought he might provide an alternative for Oz.  This story might yet have a less-expensive, happy ending! 



 

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23 Mar 2011 9:33 AM  
Posted By Krash Kinkade on 23 Mar 2011 6:04 AM

Oz Cow at L A Cyles has done many timkin bearing conversions & his prices are always reasonable.

i have another mate that makes everything himself he would not use Jim's tools would make his own, just takes time, Australia has some smart people just hard to find, they don't have web pages a web page does not make a person smarter. Oz all you get useing what 1 million others use is the same.

 



 

I appreciate that Krash and FXDRYDR but I will this way this time for the experience of it and hopefully it will turn out to be a worthwhile option for others.............

The timken bearing is not the issue either.......................its the balancer / pinion side of the crank that has the issue.........................here I need to move the balancer sprocket and inner bearing race to the new crank and position correctly, then TIG weld both in place with some small welds........I already have a tig welding unit and argon and I can weld..............so no need to go elsewhere for this fix......................

I understand about the tools and making them yourself as well bro........that was the only way to go when I was a kid... ...........I could not afford to buy them and as you stated the home made tools worked just as well as the store bought ones.......... but where I am living there is not enough space to make the tools..........................................

Ozroder



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DavePUser is Offline
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23 Mar 2011 10:28 AM  
Good onya OZ, most people would have sold the gear off at a loss and started again but you pushed on and found a solution not only for you but options for others. You should build yourself a HD engine knowledge website with options of builds and alternate solutions. As Krash rightly says, aussie's have some real switched on people, we don't need to ship stuff overseas it can all be done here, unfortuneatly we are not great at promoting it.
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23 Mar 2011 12:32 PM  
Hello again Oz, will be following your build with interest as I have a collection of parts for a 113" build also. So far I have the barrels & pistons, bored by hillside, T-man 625 cams, ported heads. Waiting for SE cases from Chicargo Harley Davidson who have accepted the order. Not holding my breath I'll get them, as a couple of other suppliers have knocked me back because of the VIN number thing.

‘07 Deluxe, SE 120R crank & rods, + 0.010" SE flat-top pistons, 87cc ported SE 110 heads, S&S easy start 625 cams, SE rocker stands, roller rockers & adjustable push-rods, SE 58mm throttle body, SE 6.2 g/s injectors, Zippers Max-Flow air filter, V & H 2 into 1 Pro-Pipe Chrome, SE Compensator, SE Race clutch, TTS
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24 Mar 2011 7:06 AM  
Posted By KiwiRob on 23 Mar 2011 12:32 PM
Hello again Oz, will be following your build with interest as I have a collection of parts for a 113" build also. So far I have the barrels & pistons, bored by hillside, T-man 625 cams, ported heads. Waiting for SE cases from Chicargo Harley Davidson who have accepted the order. Not holding my breath I'll get them, as a couple of other suppliers have knocked me back because of the VIN number thing.


I thought all the Harley shops were no longer allowed to sell HD parts to Australia or any other country.............
 

http://www.kingofcubes.com/about.htm Send Randy an email about any HD Genuine parts needs.............

www.mandmcycles.com for everything else...................................................

Ozroder



From the Ozroder fan club: Your Way Of! - Your a maniac! - Not sure if you are trying to "take the piss" out of us unintelligent ones! - Ozroder the Anonymous!
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24 Mar 2011 10:33 AM  
Posted By KiwiRob on 23 Mar 2011 12:32 PM
Hello again Oz, will be following your build with interest as I have a collection of parts for a 113" build also. So far I have the barrels & pistons, bored by hillside, T-man 625 cams, ported heads. Waiting for SE cases from Chicargo Harley Davidson who have accepted the order. Not holding my breath I'll get them, as a couple of other suppliers have knocked me back because of the VIN number thing.


Don't want to be a bearer of bad news but wishing you luck getting your stuff from Chicago HD. They have been geting a lot of bad press for a few months now in the states for very slow shipment of domestic orders. I hope they come through for you.

 


'96 FLSTN Stage 3 / '09 FLHTCU "Barge Glide" Stage 2 / gone but not forgotten '96 FLHT
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24 Mar 2011 3:44 PM  
Posted By Hilly on 18 Mar 2011 7:06 AM

shit that really sucks Oz...
 

 

Edit, looks like, you have to go up in stroke to fit your engine Oz, 4-5/8 instead of 4-3/8.     

Wonder why they dont have one? maybe you could flog the one you got?

If you can make it work then when its done the pain will be gone, someone has to go first <img src=" align="absMiddle" border="0" src="/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/_default/emoticons/smile.gif" />

Feel for you bro.

 



 

Interesting to find all the Flywheel Truing Gear on page 148 of the Jims-USA 2009  Catalog.................but I might be WAY OUT! Hilly



From the Ozroder fan club: Your Way Of! - Your a maniac! - Not sure if you are trying to "take the piss" out of us unintelligent ones! - Ozroder the Anonymous!
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24 Mar 2011 6:50 PM  

Pot Stir                          

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25 Mar 2011 7:33 AM  
Thanks for the heads up regarding Randy @ King of cubes Oz. Thought of that when I saw you post on one of the US forums regrarding this crankshaft issue of yours. Chicargo HD have had my money since before xmas. Rung them three weeks ago and they said they have re-ordered & it will be 40 days to process or something like that. May ring & cancel order & get a credit or change the order for something else.

‘07 Deluxe, SE 120R crank & rods, + 0.010" SE flat-top pistons, 87cc ported SE 110 heads, S&S easy start 625 cams, SE rocker stands, roller rockers & adjustable push-rods, SE 58mm throttle body, SE 6.2 g/s injectors, Zippers Max-Flow air filter, V & H 2 into 1 Pro-Pipe Chrome, SE Compensator, SE Race clutch, TTS
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28 Mar 2011 1:13 AM  

Ok, rang Chicago HD a couple of days ago regarding my order & I was assured I would get my SE Pro- crankcase. (Fingers crossed). I also queried them about overseas orders for HD parts. They said that the no sales for HD parts to overseas customer’s policy will come into effect 1st August.
Oz, regarding your crank, was a stock crank not an option to have plugged & welded (I believe your original one is history) Contemplating weather to send my standard crank to the US or purchase a new or used one over there to have the work done. Will need to find out the most cost effective option
I'm assuming the SE 4 3/8" stroke crank pn23703-02 for '00-'06 soft-tails is a slightly different beast also.
Would like to know a little info on the parts you will be using for your build, cams, heads, valves, pipes & other goodies,
Regards
Robert


‘07 Deluxe, SE 120R crank & rods, + 0.010" SE flat-top pistons, 87cc ported SE 110 heads, S&S easy start 625 cams, SE rocker stands, roller rockers & adjustable push-rods, SE 58mm throttle body, SE 6.2 g/s injectors, Zippers Max-Flow air filter, V & H 2 into 1 Pro-Pipe Chrome, SE Compensator, SE Race clutch, TTS
OzroderUser is Offline
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28 Mar 2011 2:15 AM  
Posted By KiwiRob on 28 Mar 2011 1:13 AM

Ok, rang Chicago HD a couple of days ago regarding my order & I was assured I would get my SE Pro- crankcase. (Fingers crossed). I also queried them about overseas orders for HD parts. They said that the no sales for HD parts to overseas customer’s policy will come into effect 1st August......this will then mean you can get genuine parts from M and M Cycle or King of Cubes etc etc etc................


Oz, regarding your crank, was a stock crank not an option to have plugged & welded..................yes, but it still meant having to change the stock conrods (overseas purchase of these for 400/600 plus shipping)  as the stock units have the crap tapered rod ends.......which are supposed to stretch...............and having the crank flywheels re plugged and balanced in the flywheels with heavy metal to suit the heavier piston weights............and TMan is the only one I know that has done this................check his site.........

Sending your set over will cost you shipping etc..........new rods, plug and true, balancing (to suit the piston weights of the pistons you choose which I believe is a "must do") and shipping back to Oz.

(I believe your original one is history) Mine had shifted ........so needed re - phasing of the wheels, plugging and truing as a minimum and I wanted H rods no matter what due to original rods being questionable......until I found they weighed more than the stock units on the original and new unit which would affect performance in mid/top end range........

Contemplating weather to send my standard crank to the US or purchase a new or used one over there to have the work done. Will need to find out the most cost effective option..................as above you have new rods and shipping to States to add............and dependant on piston choice and total weights of pistons, rings, circlips and pins..........you might need to add balancing ($400+) to the bill.

I purchased the SE Pro Crank believing firstly it was a direct fit and I would save on balancing..........as this crank was balanced to suit the pistons (SE Pistons 10.5:1 x 4.060" diameter) which I ordered for the 113" build...............  


I'm assuming the SE 4 3/8" stroke crank pn23703-02 for '00-'06 soft-tails is a slightly different beast also. ..............it is dimensionally the same as the 00-06 model but comes with no sprocket side inner race........................and the left side (pinion side) inner race is not the correct width (but will still fit with the pinion side balancer sproket) so you pull the sprocket side inner bearing race and the pinion side inner bearing race and balancer sprockets and swap these over to the crank like I will do tack weld then in place using TIG process and now you can fit crank......as per above pics.............

The cost is the purchase of the same crank I have and the tools.............(although I would lend you the ones I have if you decide to go down my path.........) (my balancer spocket and chain set was broken also and needed to be replaced.)

The other option as Hilly rightly pointed out and I was wrong again for the same reason above and probably your cheapest option is to go with a 4.5" stroke and 4.00" bore all SE products and have this plugged and trued as you will only ship once...........no need for balancing and a straight in fit................


Would like to know a little info on the parts you will be using for your build, cams, heads, valves, pipes & other goodies, .......pm me with your personal address and I will go from there with you.............

 
Regards


Robert



 



From the Ozroder fan club: Your Way Of! - Your a maniac! - Not sure if you are trying to "take the piss" out of us unintelligent ones! - Ozroder the Anonymous!
2012 - I`m still here!
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