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  • kingchops Posts: 4128
    Adelaide, SA
    Forum Legend kingchops
    02 Apr 2008 10:06 PM

    Well folks, I've done the deed and converted my '07 Sportster to a 1200.  Because I wanted a simple and reliable upgrade I decided to do jugs and pistons and stick with the 883 heads. I want to post this info because there's not a whole lot of complete info on doing this conversion on post '07 Sporty's ie the fuel injected ones.  And there's quite a bit of confusion on what you need to do exactly and what the options are.

    The various shops that I spoke to about getting the conversion done gave me a wide range of quotes with different options every time.  Quotes I got varied from around $2500 from the local Adelaide dealer to around $1200 from another shop.  Various options that were given to me were:

    1) Bore the 883 cases and replace pistons with Wisecos, no fuel option  $1200
    2) Bore 883 cases and fit SERT from dealer $2500
    3) Bore 883 cases and fit Thundermax $2000
    4) My option was to get the V-Twin Kit off ebay $570, get it fitted $615 and initially to re-flash the 883 EMC to 1200 with stage 1 $1185
    - The 1200 ECM flash worked ok but I eventually went with the Thundermax auto-tune ECM for $860, so in total upgrade cost me around $2000

    Another option would be to go with the Harley Screamin Eagle kit which comes complete with 1200 jugs, pistons and heads.  I priced the kit from Zanotti's at about 1200 delivered to AU, then you would have to get it installed but this seemed like a pretty good option as it also comes with the Screamin Eagle Air Filter.

    Probably the most confusing thing about doing the conversion on a '07 and up Sporty is finding out what the options are in terms of the fuel injection.  This is what I found:

    - Regardless of whether or not you have a fuel tuner on your 883 you will still need to flash your ECM to 1200 specs. 

    - If you have the V&H Fuelpak it won't work, even if you flash your 883 ECM to 1200 and set your Fuelpak to 1200 settings.  V&H don't have a map as yet for the 883/1200 setup.  I spoke to them and they said they will have one soon.  With the Fuelpak I found it was best to remove it because the bike ran better with just the flashed 1200  Sporty ECM. 

    - I've heard of others successfully using a combination of 1200 Spory ECM and the PCIII, although the PCIII needs to be dyno tuned for the upgrade.

    - The other option for fuel management is to go with the Thundermax with auto-tune as this replaces the 883 ECM and can be tuned for any setup.  Main drawback with this is the $900 cost.

    The engine kit I went with was the V-Twin Manufacturing 1200 Big Bore Kit for '04 and up Sporty's, kit comes with:

    • Wiseco 9.5:1 dish top pistons,
    • Hastings rings.
    • Base and head gaskets, head gasket was James but base gasket was a paper gasket so I got the shop to replace it with a James.
    • Wrist pins and all clips etc

    The kit I bought only came with head and base gaskets but you can buy kits off ebay with complete James top end gasket kits for a bit more.  The kit comes in black with milled edge fins or silver with fins closely matching the look of the 883 heads.  I decided to go for a mixture of black jugs with my silver 883 heads.

    On inspection of the VTwin kit the castings and machining on the jugs looks pretty good.  Overall I was pretty happy with the look of kit's quality.  I got if fitter at KM Motorcycles in Adelaide and the guys there were pretty impressed with the look of it and even more impressed when I told them what I paid for it.

    Biggest bummer of this whole story is that the work on my bike is done but I couldn't get down there today to pick it up so it'll be tomorrow morning now.  I'll give you a first hand update as soon as I get one.

     

     

     V-Twin Manufacturing 1200 replacement barrels

     

    Wiseco 9.5:1 dish top pistons

    A pic from the right side of the bike with the V-Twin kit fitted:

    Picture of the left site with V-Twin kit installed:

     

     

  • Slider Posts: 79
    Launceston Tasmania
    Stock Poster Slider
    03 Apr 2008 08:59 AM
    Sounds good Kingchops , hanging out to hear how it goes
    Cheer,s
  • rodders Posts: 5260
    The Place To Be.
    Forum Legend rodders
    03 Apr 2008 01:40 PM
    Way to go Kingchops. Thanks for putting up the pics and commentary. Can't wait for your verdict on the mods.
    Cheers,
    Rodders.
  • LOFTYBOB Posts: 3284
    Strength in Unity
    Forum Legend LOFTYBOB
    03 Apr 2008 05:31 PM

    Good work mate. It will be interesting to see how she compares to a stock 1200.

    Enjoy

  • kingchops Posts: 4128
    Adelaide, SA
    Forum Legend kingchops
    04 Apr 2008 10:43 AM
    OK, well I've had a chance to test the bike now and the initial results are mixed. Power wise the bike seems great, there's a definate power boost but I suspect that the re-map used (1200 Stage 1) is not suitable to this updgrade. The timing seems off and the bike misses while accellerating and there's a fair few flat spots in different rev ranges. I've arranged to try a few different maps over the weekend and I'm sure the right map will sort it out. I'll keep people posted.
  • kingchops Posts: 4128
    Adelaide, SA
    Forum Legend kingchops
    05 Apr 2008 10:07 PM

    Spent a few hours at Scotty's place today trying out quite a few ECU configurations to get the bike running smoother. We had some interesting results. On initially riding the bike when I picked it up after getting the big bore installed I had the impression that it was running really rough but after riding it today it wasn't as bad as I first though. The bike in general idles fine with the 1200 stage 1 map, but there's just a bit of a back-fire or timing issue while accellerating and cruising. Power wise it definately pulls hard after the big bore so I rekon I deffinately acheived the power I was after. It was good also getting Scotty to take the bike for a ride to get his opinion of what the power felt like and he confirmed that the power was good.

    In trying to smooth out the ride of the bike we reverted back to the 883 Stage 1 ECU map to see what a difference it would make. It ran terrible with the 883 stage 1 map, so we definately confirmed that installing a big bore kit on an 2007 and up Sporty requires a re-map to 1200 ECU. We also tried different configurations of the V&H Fuelpak to see how much of a difference that would make, we tried setting the Fuelpak to an ad-hoc map which was half way between the 883 and 1200 setting from V&H but that didn't seem to work well. In the end we disabled the Fuelpak by setting all of the ranges to zero.

    From here I'm going to try a few different 1200 configurations of the Fuelpak to see if any of them will smooth the bike out. I'll keep people posted on the results. As things stand though the 883/1200 motor (1200 jugs and pistons with 883 head) seems to work the best with the 1200 stage 1 ECU map but still not great in terms of a smooth ride.

  • BACAMICK Posts: 1258
    WEST WIMMERA VIC
    Performance Poster BACAMICK
    06 Apr 2008 09:12 AM

    looking good mate  who will be up front now

  • grafpak Posts: 279
    Stage 1 Poster grafpak
    07 Apr 2008 10:50 PM
    have you thought of getting it on the dyno to sought out fuel and spark?
  • kingchops Posts: 4128
    Adelaide, SA
    Forum Legend kingchops
    07 Apr 2008 10:56 PM
    Posted By grafpak on 07 Apr 2008 10:20 PM
    have you thought of getting it on the dyno to sought out fuel and spark?



    Grafpak,

    That's one option but what I've decided to do is get the Thundermax with autotune, that should sort it out.  I've got one on order.

  • Dazza Posts: 0
    Dazza
    07 Apr 2008 11:13 PM

    the things people do to keep up with dynas

  • kingchops Posts: 4128
    Adelaide, SA
    Forum Legend kingchops
    08 Apr 2008 08:03 AM
    I think it's the duty of every Sportster owner to make sure their bike goes faster than a Dyna.
  • kingchops Posts: 4128
    Adelaide, SA
    Forum Legend kingchops
    08 Apr 2008 10:18 AM
    How's this, I stuck on the stock pipes today to get the defect removed and the bike ran near perfect with the big bore, only a slight hint of the backfire. So it's definately a fuel tuning issue. I rekon once the Thundermax arrives all will be sorted. I'll keep people posted.
  • OzBlueHarley Posts: 129
    Brisvegas
    Stock Poster OzBlueHarley
    09 Apr 2008 11:10 AM

    KC how did Scotty flash the ECU?
    I've heard you can flash them to stage one etc but I was also told a by a Harley Dealer that HD haven't released any ECU upgrades for the Sportster.

  • kingchops Posts: 4128
    Adelaide, SA
    Forum Legend kingchops
    09 Apr 2008 01:25 PM
    I was told the same thing by the local dealer in SA, they're pretty out of touch with what can be done.

    You need the correct software in conjuction with the SERT, his software unlike the retail SERT software will work with any bike. Then you can basically flash the ECU to what ever you like. The maps that we tried were teh 883 Stage 1 and the 1200 Stage 1.
  • grafpak Posts: 279
    Stage 1 Poster grafpak
    10 Apr 2008 09:38 AM
    That's one option but what I've decided to do is get the Thundermax with autotune, that should sort it out. I've got one on order

    sounds good...
  • kingchops Posts: 4128
    Adelaide, SA
    Forum Legend kingchops
    10 Apr 2008 02:01 PM
    The plot thickens, I removed the V&H Fuelpak the other day but didn't get a chance to ride the bike until today with the Fuelpak out. Well, the bike seems to run just about spot on now with the Fuelpak removed. I think their support gave me a bum steer when they said just set all modes back to zero to turn the Fuelpak off. I've still got the stock pipes on the bike from getting the defect off so hopefully tonight I'll get some time to switch back to the Screamin Eagles and see how everything runs then.
  • kingchops Posts: 4128
    Adelaide, SA
    Forum Legend kingchops
    13 Apr 2008 03:12 PM
    I had the first chance today to ride the bike with the SE SP exhausts back on and the V&H Fuelpak removed and guess what, the bike runs great. The V&H Fuelpak must have been causing some fuel tuning issues even though I'd set all the first 18 modes to zero. As far as I'm concerned the jury is in on the 883/1200 conversion and all you need is the 1200 Stage 1 ECU flash. I've decided in any case to get a Thundermax with auto-tune to see how much better it runs with that as compared to the factory ECM. I'll update the story once I get it fitted. But for a bang for buck upgrade you don't need to get one.
  • BACAMICK Posts: 1258
    WEST WIMMERA VIC
    Performance Poster BACAMICK
    13 Apr 2008 09:25 PM

    ull be happy as with the TM

    had a look on my TM maps and there is only 2 maps for you , makes it easier 4 ya

    map 390 is a 1200/  stock 45mm t/BODY/   KW HP MUFFLERS/   stock pistons but 1200heads, no radical timing , should do u just fine

    map 358 is a total stock 883 that would probly be no good 4 ya

     

  • waynekerr Posts: 0
    waynekerr
    14 Apr 2008 07:33 AM
    Actually map 390 has been upgraded to map 415 which apparently runs really well on the 1200's
  • kingchops Posts: 4128
    Adelaide, SA
    Forum Legend kingchops
    14 Apr 2008 01:44 PM

    Sounds good, once it arrives I'm sure I'll have questions.

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