timkin bearing mod & crank upgrade

  • Outlaw01
    Outlaw01
    11 years ago

     Im looking at doing my engine up further but I cant seem to find anyone that can modify the cases to take the timkin bearings & true , balance & weld the crank. 

    Anyone got any ideas?????????

  • daddyracer56
    daddyracer56
    11 years ago

    Ollie's  Eng , Qld ,  about the only  bloke around

  • Outlaw01
    Outlaw01
    11 years ago

     Have you got any contact details for him?

  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    11 years ago

    In Sydney Cow @ L A Cycles, does timkin conversions, & he welded my Crank very happy with results too as have reved this motor to  7,200 regular  it's smooth.

     

  • ozymax
    ozymax
    11 years ago
    well then they may lift their game
  • speedzter
    speedzter
    11 years ago
    Just pulled the trigger on a new set of SE Case's that will have the Timken conversion done by Darkhorse, along with a new
    lightened Stroker Crank' bult by them using S&S parts.
    Should be a solid bottom end.
  • daddyracer56
    daddyracer56
    11 years ago

    Ollie's in Qld   OEM   & John Tresse Eng  TRE in Vic  are about the only 2 that can do the late style  press together cranks  as far as i know Ollie gets a lot of work from a lot of shops  , Robbo's harley etc

  • speedzter
    speedzter
    11 years ago
    Krash, I was looking at a complete S&S 124, but that would have been expensive,
    So after lots of thought I've settled on a 4 3/8 stroke and 4.060 bore using SE Cases/Cylinders and Headquarters CP dished Pistons .
    I have a set of WFO Larry stage 2+ Heads that I was going to use on the 95" engine.

    I could have gone to120 or 124 for not much more $, but I'm planning on somethng that will Rev a bit quicker with the lightened Crank, and be bulletproof.
    I was almost going to use 117 Axtell Cylinders, but I've read to many horror stories about them suffering poor ring sealing due to going out of round.
    And I'm not a big fan of overboring cases that far, along with base gasket problems.

    It will be around 10.5:1 with 84cc heads, and I'm looking at using Tman TR590 Cams.
    There have been a lot of very strong 113 builds I've seen in the US, so here's hoping !!

  • daddyracer56
    daddyracer56
    11 years ago

     i only use the 80,000 lbs tuctile iron type  AXTELL  barrels  iv'e never use the aluminium style  do the alloy one's have problems ?

  • speedzter
    speedzter
    11 years ago
    Krash, I'm leaning towards a 45mm Mikuni. I think a 48 would be overkill, and makes manifold choice harder.

    The Alloy Axtell with Iron liner have had problems I've read.
  • Hoodeng
    Hoodeng
    11 years ago
    There seems to be different views as to the viability of the OEM TC crank to stand up to performance applications varying from nothing more than stock use to 140+ hp and anything in between. The stock crank in sound condition is a good product given an even break in its life ,its construction utilizing a press fit crankpin and integral pinion and sprocket shafts is vastly superior to the old tapers and nuts, of interest is that the S&S press fit crank uses a smaller pin {38mm} to OEM being {42.5mm} also the S&S crank is rebuild able as there are .001” increment O/S pins to accommodate for the change in fit integrity, the stock crank is a one shot item as the integrity of the fit is lost on disassembly ,but a correct welding procedure is beneficial. , lightening the crank is also a bit academic as Harley redesigned the crank some time back to shift the weight closer to the centerline to reduce inertia but to retain mass and integrity as was the reduction of weight in the chamfer top rods done for the same reason .
    The bulk of issues has been out of true conditions caused by a number of running situations one being detonation ,this causes an uncontrolled combustion pressure rise being applied to the whole engine from the top down affecting gaskets, pistons ,rings ,bearings ,crank assemblies, main bearings, balancer assys, etc ,people say the detonation goes away after about 3500rpm ,it does not ,what it does is go into a audible range only your dog can hear .The result on a dial indicator is a crank in a spread condition or if you looked at the crank from behind with the rods at TDC it would appear the sprocket and pinion shaft ends would measure pointing up, this is the most common fault, a pinched assembly measures the opposite at the shaft ends this is an assembly condition.
    The next condition is the wheels in a kicked condition or if you looked at the crank from the top with rods at TDC you would measure the sprocket shaft forward or back from the true centerline.
    As for the mains, yes Timken conversions add a definite rigidity to the assembly for a number of design reasons that is lacking in the 03 and later engines that have a similar roller assembly in both the sprocket and pinion mains, I do those here.
    TCB engines can also suffer from balancers going out of phase, sometimes caused by lean sneeze or savage kick back on the starter, as the crankshaft’s balancer drive sprocket is an interference fit on the shaft with no locator.
    Some years back we tried hot rod TCB’s without the balancers, the 88 to 95 engines were not to bad if you don’t mind something that felt like riding an old evo, we also did a 88 to 103 that behaved differently, there was a similar bike feel but that one started to crack odd brackets like the oil tank mount for example, so keep the balancers and if you need revs get a TCA.
    There is no substitute for the correct set up, tune and service of your bike to keep the engine sound; we have seen dyno set up hot rod TC’s with over 100K on them still going fine.
  • daddyracer56
    daddyracer56
    11 years ago

    hi, i think i replied  before on too high comp ratio on the wrong choice cam's with working on more low down & mid range torque to pull a heavy  weight bike + a heavy rider  &  even 2up ,     the earlier the lobe centre  esp on the inlet the more prone  too pinking or detonation the more load you put on the crank & bigend @ lower rev's  when the motor does not get a chance too rev up  too take the load easier  esp on the later model longer stroke crank's  = more load  ,  these motors will rev to 6,000 rpm without hurting them there good working range is from 2,300 -4,800  in normal riding , the more you   lug the motor  & load   lower rev range  the worse it is , if you want to go fast rev her out a bit in 3rd gear 4th etc , get thru 1st & 2 nd as fast as posible  as the lower gears do not take you  very far  or fast  & is easy to over rev the engine

  • Ricca
    Ricca
    5 years ago
    Quoting speedzter on 10 Jun 2012 10:24 AM

    Just pulled the trigger on a new set of SE Case's that will have the Timken conversion done by Darkhorse, along with a new
    lightened Stroker Crank' bult by them using S&S parts.
    Should be a solid bottom end.

    Been a few years wondering if you are happy with the darkhorse crank ?
    Looking at doing a set up for my 07 train , Supercharged,

    Blew my oil pump due to bad crank run out now looking at a setup to be strong and affordable 

    Whats a Welded crank rated to in everyone's eyes. 
    Im pushing (was) 160+ hp 

    Looking at Darkhorse Man o war set up with T man 107 performance kit and fueling cam & oil plate set up 

    should be a winner! here for suggestions 
  • Baloffski
    Baloffski
    5 years ago
    Wellllll. That was a long time between drinks..?
    Mr. Hood of course nailed it.
  • speedzter
    speedzter
    5 years ago
    Quoting speedzter on 10 Jun 2012 10:24 AM

    Just pulled the trigger on a new set of SE Case's that will have the Timken conversion done by Darkhorse, along with a new
    lightened Stroker Crank' bult by them using S&S parts.
    Should be a solid bottom end.

    Quoting Ricca on 08 Mar 2019 06:24 PM

    Been a few years wondering if you are happy with the darkhorse crank ?

    Looking at doing a set up for my 07 train , Supercharged,

    Blew my oil pump due to bad crank run out now looking at a setup to be strong and affordable 

    Whats a Welded crank rated to in everyone's eyes. 
    Im pushing (was) 160+ hp 

    Looking at Darkhorse Man o war set up with T man 107 performance kit and fueling cam & oil plate set up 

    should be a winner! here for suggestions 

    Funny (expensive) story, that DH crank chewed out the rods very early, was sent back to the US and they rebuilt it under warranty.
    Never really found a cause !

    With the new import costs, freight costs, and aussie $, I would just buy an off the shelf S&S Crank.
    About $2200 last I checked, and that is what I did with my current 120 that I built.
    Also the current S&S have changed to a 3 piece design with a 1.675" pin.

    No welding needed (or recommended by S&S ), and I used SE Lefty bearings on both sides.
    I will only ever be in the 140hp range, and wont do high km's, so didn't warrant a Timken conversion in my opinion.
    Welding itself does little for Crankshaft strength, the best way to increase crank pin fit/strength is to fit an oversize plug or "pro plug" as DH call it.

    The Timken upgrade is another bone of contention for me.
    To do the upgrade correctly, you need more than the simple "bolt in" adapter from Jims or SE.
    Maybe I'm overthinking it, and Hoody would have more experience with this.
    Check out how Tman or DH do it.

    A new 3 piece off the shelf S&S Crank will handle 160hp +