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  • Dynabob Posts: 11
    Stock Poster Dynabob
    21 Sep 2007 10:31 AM

    Hi,  just a quick question...i know the 96 cu motors run HOT, and have heard there is an ECM modification for the rear cylinder to shut down on idle. Was wondering if anyone has had this mod done......

  • kingchops Posts: 0
    kingchops
    21 Sep 2007 11:18 AM
    I've heard that aftermarket ECM controllers reduce temperature in general but I'm sure some of the more technical guys on here can expand on that.
  • stix68 Posts: 0
    stix68
    21 Sep 2007 04:21 PM

    First off, let me say I've had my 07  for a year now, done 18k, and never experienced this "hot" condition, that has been spoken of a lot, have a couple of mates with 07's and they never mentioned it either.

    But what you speak of is called Parade Mode, when temps become critical the ECM goes through stages to control it. First stage is to add more fuel, second stage is stopping cylinder firing every other stroke, third is total shutdown of engine. Can be flashed in by a HD tech, or added DYI by use of the SE Race Tuner version 4.6.2 or "J" version. When changing or modify a map with the SERT there is a section in the software that enables the heat management program to be switched on/off. I personally like the SERT software, but am probably in the minority. SERT deals with temp management and also allows the active intake/exhaust sytems to be switched on/off. Those are but two of the hundreds of different tuning options the SERT gives you.
    Hope that helps.
    PS. I'm not a mechanics azzhole. Just been through this already on my own 2007 bike.

  • boofhead Posts: 326
    Canberra
    Stage 1 Poster boofhead
    21 Sep 2007 06:30 PM
    The 06 tc88's have this too. I've had my bike pretty hot but haven't had this happen either.
  • BACAMICK Posts: 1270
    WEST WIMMERA VIC
    Performance Poster BACAMICK
    21 Sep 2007 07:00 PM

    i recon its a usa thing with the heat , we may have diff setups ?????????

    i done 1800 ks on mine b4 i stript it down and never had a heat issue, had stage 1 b4 i pickt it up from shop

  • boofhead Posts: 326
    Canberra
    Stage 1 Poster boofhead
    21 Sep 2007 07:38 PM

    Maybe you have to riding in a "parade" for that mode to kick in

     

  • Dynabob Posts: 11
    Stock Poster Dynabob
    21 Sep 2007 07:42 PM
    Thanks for the info....my leg gets a bit warm when i i sit at stop lights...over than that No other problems...
  • kensim Posts: 163
    newcastle
    Stock Poster kensim
    21 Sep 2007 07:45 PM
    what stix68 said is pretty right on ,for more info check this web site out www.nightrider.com.
  • Dazza Posts: 0
    Dazza
    22 Sep 2007 10:58 AM
    no heat issue with mine, I also run a sert like stix for the same reasons however mine is not fully set up yet
  • JC&S34 Posts: 75
    Stock Poster JC&S34
    22 Sep 2007 11:06 PM
    Ive got a SERT on my 07 Dyna. I dont understand enough about it yet to start changing maps but it definitely runs cooler at idle. From what I can gather 02 sensors are the source of high tempratures at idle. Regardless of the type of tuner used, if they are included in the system the air / fuel ratio defaults to 14.7 at idle because thats what the sensors tell it to do. To over come the problem you need to either eliminate them or fit wide band sensors thus allowing it to run richer at idle and this lowers the temprature. Another way is to wire a diode into the sensor wires and trick them into thinking the voltage is different and this allows an AFR of 14.2 though it really needs to be about 13.5 to 13.7. Nightrider. com has heaps of good info about the subject that specificaly relates to 07 models and I must admit that's where I got most of this stuff from. Dealers are supposed to have the latest maps available so I guess it depends on how old your bike is as to what map you have, but to really fix the problem the AFR needs to be lowered and without changing or eliminating the sensors I'm not too sure exactly how you achieve this.
  • boofhead Posts: 326
    Canberra
    Stage 1 Poster boofhead
    23 Sep 2007 10:48 AM

    A couple of other cooling options if you are really worried about temps (and I have no experience with these, I just know they are available);

    Oil coolers - theres heaps of different types

    Cooling fan - goes where the horn is and blows air through the gap between the pots.

  • JC&S34 Posts: 75
    Stock Poster JC&S34
    23 Sep 2007 03:34 PM
    Cooling fans and oil coolers are options that do work, however they only mask the fact that your engine is still running very hot. I'm pretty sure that in the SERT there must be a way of adjusting the temp at which the CO2 sensors switch between open and closed loop. If I can can work that out then the AFR can be lowered to about 13.7. I may be on a completely wrong track to find a cure but from what I can gather the SERT is a really high tech tool and my idea should work.
  • stix68 Posts: 0
    stix68
    24 Sep 2007 10:10 AM
    Stock cams are the biggest problem in the 96.
  • GREG Posts: 622
    Bowen
    Performance Poster GREG
    24 Sep 2007 11:24 AM
    More info if ya don't mind stix!!!
  • stix68 Posts: 0
    stix68
    25 Sep 2007 09:17 AM
    Here is some more details for ya. this is quoted from a respected engine builder in the USA from another site.

    [QUOTE]The stock cam is a short overlap. Keep that in mind as you read this.


    The stock head pipe is longer in the front so the harmonics are better suited for low RPM. The rear head pipe is short so the harmonics of that pipe are better suited for high rpms. So with the low rpm you ride in under normal street instead of suction you get reversion or stand off in the rear cylinder as the rear pipe is out of sync with low rpm. That is one cause of the rear cylinder running hotter than front under street use. Where as the front pipe is better suited for that rpm range and it will run cooler.

    Now the new stock cams for the 07 ( I will find the specs and post them we degreed one a few months ago) are under 10* of overlap. This small amount of overlap is an issue. As it is a very short period of time. The overlap cycle aids in cooling down the head. Previous t/c had 35-40 * of overlap in the stock cams. ( not all stock cams are the same)

    Since the harmonics are off you do not get as much scavanging to cool down the heads with that short overlap.

    Now onto header pipe length, The front cylinder head pipe legnth is longer so it works better under lower rpms so it will cool the head down more than the rear, but as you move into high rpm ranges the rear will start to cool more than the front as the harmonics are suited for the higher rpm range. As the front cycle hamronic cycle is out of tune in the higher rpm range.

    315/405 that is the degree that a common runner use's to run at.

    When the front cylinder is firing at 35* BTDC the rear piston is at 10* ATDC so your rear piston has only 315 to fire from the front cylinder firing.

    Now the rear cylinder is firing at 35* BTDC your front pistons is at 80* BTDC so for it to fir again it has to go 405 again to fire. Add those up you get 720*

    So what you get is a different bounce back wave on the intake runner and get uneven cylinder fill from front to rear.

    This is where correctly ported heads shine. Our head is ported differently from front to rear to compensate for this different timing event. The old trick that was used was to skew the intake manifold from 1.5 -2.0 degress to try to alter that and have a close cylinder fill. It does not work as well as using math to make the changes to the port. Where a head that is ported to compensate for this will balance out cylinder fill and run cooler. AS well tightening the port up will result in better atomized fuel resulting in less chance for ping, as you have lower head temps and then you can add more compression in there as well with no ill effects.

    You have a wave that is boucning off the intake valve. Now as that valve is opening the short pipe on the rear under low rpm is out of tune with the intake valve. SO when the valve opens instead of the ex sucking the intake charge in to purge the chamber and cool it down for the next cycle you get reversion and lack of scavange this equals excessive heat build up in the head.

    As well the overlap cycle is so short on the stock 07 cams your tune needs to be spot on. I am not saying that with a spot on tune you will fix all of this, what I am saying is that there is almost no degree for error. AS before you had a much longer overlap cycle the head pipe legnth was not as critical, so you had better cooling as they work hand in hand. So adding a cam with a longer overlap will help you out in that area. But you are still dealing with the 315/405 timing events and stock heads.

    Now the front cylinder head pipe is much longer it is more in tune with lower rpm ranges. SO it is more likely to come into tune with a stock cam. Do not forget that you are battling the rear cylinder at low rpms. So they are fighting each other with the stock head pipe, short overlap, and stock heads.
    All of this adds up to the hot running that is seen in the 07 models.

    If you look at a head pipe that has a large legnth difference from front to rear it is going to be hard to tune it as the harmonics are way off from one to another. That is where a pipe with front and rear head pipes that are equal legnth perform so well.

    I hope this sheds some light on the subject, I tried to keep it simple as there are 4 harmonic waves you are dealing with I listed one. But it keeps it simple and you can see what is going on with the stock bikes.

    That is why using a package that is set up to work together makes so much sense. There are some fixs for poor exhaust pipes like adding a washer and skewing it to help with the scavage cylce. If you get it so out of tune withthe harmonics you are fighting a uphill battle the entire way. This goes for improperly ground cams, incorrectly ported heads, improper exhuast systems.

    I know that in our world that many times you cannot have it all but if you know what you are up against going in you are more likely to have a winner as a final build vs one that does not live up to what you where looking for. [QUOTE]

  • Trusty1 Posts: 16
    Stock Poster Trusty1
    15 Nov 2007 11:22 PM

    G;day Fellas,

     

    I don't know about the heat issues, but between Stix and Greg, we have got the Avatar awards covered. I love it when you two post together. Keep up the good work!!

    T1

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