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  • Oz Dan Posts: 219
    QLD
    Stock Poster Oz Dan
    04 Dec 2018 07:08 AM
    Quoting pogmahon on 03 Dec 2018 09:02 PM
    Only became aware of this issue today as I am at 7000km and was running my eye over the bike (2018 FLTRXS) Checked gearbox oil dipstick as per manual (on stand, screwed in til 0-ring just seats, at room temp etc). No oil on stick at all??? stand bike upright, still nothing. Called my Dealer here in Geelong and they say they're unaware of any problem in regards to oil migration. Normally I'd dump the oil and measure the amount myself but I've dropped it in their lap and am waiting to hear back from them. In the meantime I've been doing a hell of a lot of reading about the issue and I believe it's bigger than they're willing to admit. I'll report back once I know more but it sounds like the Williams Pushrod replacement might be something to consider if it continues to happen.

    Cheers Graeme.
    This is a very well known issue. Quote them TA00022......actually, google it, print it out, and take it in to show them. This is the technical alert HD issued about the problem. Harley have since pulled it and pretend they know nothing of it.

    All bikes with hydraulic clutches since 2014 can be effected by this. Your oil is in the primary. 

    HD have no clue how to fix this. They do have a oil slinger kit meant to help, but often it’s reported to actually make it worse. You can stuff around with your dealer till the cows come home but until you fit the Willians pushrod, if your bike is effected, it’ll never stop.....
  • Oz Dan Posts: 219
    QLD
    Stock Poster Oz Dan
    04 Dec 2018 07:17 AM
    Here is the technical alert for the issue......as you can read within, they have no fix for 2017 up bikes. They still don’t. 




    HD Forums Australia - 45B543B1-AF04-406C-85AF-058516AEABBB.jpeg

  • boxa Posts: 608
    Performance Poster boxa
    04 Dec 2018 05:44 PM
    So whats the verdict , has  a non mechanical sort of dude , air in the tyres is my limits , would you buy one , i mean 35 grand plus extras  exhaust ect , will dial you in for around 38 grand , a lot of money  for there to be issues ,.. Got 3 bikes and for 3-4 years , i still keep wondering shall i get rid and buy one bike which would be a RK ,, but  issues worry me , to start with  , unless the mechanic picked it up at servicing , i probably would'nt even know i had a problem till the engine blew or similar .
    So would ya or would'nt ya
  • Oz Dan Posts: 219
    QLD
    Stock Poster Oz Dan
    04 Dec 2018 06:35 PM
    Quoting boxa on 04 Dec 2018 05:44 PM
    So whats the verdict , has  a non mechanical sort of dude , air in the tyres is my limits , would you buy one , i mean 35 grand plus extras  exhaust ect , will dial you in for around 38 grand , a lot of money  for there to be issues ,.. Got 3 bikes and for 3-4 years , i still keep wondering shall i get rid and buy one bike which would be a RK ,, but  issues worry me , to start with  , unless the mechanic picked it up at servicing , i probably would'nt even know i had a problem till the engine blew or similar .
    So would ya or would'nt ya
    Well I did and I’m very glad I did.......any bike since 2014 with a hydraulic clutch can have trans fluid migration so it’s not an issue just with new bikes. And for 100 bucks, you can add the Williams push rod and forget about it anyway. Any bike mechanic can fit it in 10 minutes.......off with the derby cover, surclip off, pull stock rod out, slide new one in and put back together.

    The sumping problems are said to now be sorted with the 2019 model year oil pumps and plates.....but again, mine never had any issue in this regard either.

    People tend to post when things go wrong........if everyone who has a perfectly good bike posted on the world’s forums to tell us so, no one would be thinking there are issues......

    So yes - if you need/want a new bike, test ride one and go from there.....that’s my take......
  • SquALeD Posts: 65
    Stock Poster SquALeD
    04 Dec 2018 07:02 PM
    Ive just ridden my 2017 M8 RoadGlide to Phillip Island for the MotoGP and back...Before I left the trans fluid was right on the full mark on the dipstickat the 8000k service.  Checked it a day later (1000km later) no change..I didnt check it again untill I got to bordertown on the way back so about 4500km total so far...It was off the stick. Had to put about 300ml in to bring the level back up to the full mark, this level didnt change despite seeing 42 deg days and sitting at 140kmh/3500rpm with bursts up to 180ish when overtaking for about another 2 days when i got to madura pass. by the time i got back to perth it was halfway in the x between the 2 lines, this was after 1.5 days or so sitting at 100/110kmh and 2800ish rpm back in the urban areas after norseman....

    I did roundabout a full service interval in 8-9 days riding (7500km) and i can say, on my bike at least the migration seems to be worse when travelling at around 100kmh in top than, say sitting on the nulla for a few days at 140kmh/3500rpm...i think its deffo caused when the motor gets into a certain rpm/speed/load range...

    I mentioned this to a dealer here in Perth and was told yes, weve had one do this but it was impossible for this to occur via the clutch pushrod tunnel....we drained 1.4l out of the primary after i got back...Strange thing is that the level didnt change one bit going up to the 8000k service

    This is a real odd one...ive read on the us sites about some bikes doing it from new then stopping later, something to do with the slipper clutch? some bikes not doing it then starting later and one that repeatedly migrated its trans fluid down to the add mark even after being topped up to the full mark then migrating back down to the add mark!...never any further..

    OzDan...I read about you grabbing gregs pushrod on some of the american sites...its working ok for you i guess? i think this is the route im gonna take after warranty is out in march..

    gonna be monitoring this fluid level carefully over the next service interval

    (By the way, I still love my M8 to bits)

    EDIT:clarity

  • Oz Dan Posts: 219
    QLD
    Stock Poster Oz Dan
    04 Dec 2018 07:28 PM
    Quoting SquALeD on 04 Dec 2018 07:02 PMedited: 04 Dec 2018 08:15 PM
    Ive just ridden my 2017 M8 RoadGlide to Phillip Island for the MotoGP and back...Before I left the trans fluid was right on the full mark on the dipstickat the 8000k service.  Checked it a day later (1000km later) no change..I didnt check it again untill I got to bordertown on the way back so about 4500km total so far...It was off the stick. Had to put about 300ml in to bring the level back up to the full mark, this level didnt change despite seeing 42 deg days and sitting at 140kmh/3500rpm with bursts up to 180ish when overtaking for about another 2 days when i got to madura pass. by the time i got back to perth it was halfway in the x between the 2 lines, this was after 1.5 days or so sitting at 100/110kmh and 2800ish rpm back in the urban areas after norseman....

    I did roundabout a full service interval in 8-9 days riding (7500km) and i can say, on my bike at least the migration seems to be worse when travelling at around 100kmh in top than, say sitting on the nulla for a few days at 140kmh/3500rpm...i think its deffo caused when the motor gets into a certain rpm/speed/load range...

    I mentioned this to a dealer here in Perth and was told yes, weve had one do this but it was impossible for this to occur via the clutch pushrod tunnel....we drained 1.4l out of the primary after i got back...Strange thing is that the level didnt change one bit going up to the 8000k service

    This is a real odd one...ive read on the us sites about some bikes doing it from new then stopping later, something to do with the slipper clutch? some bikes not doing it then starting later and one that repeatedly migrated its trans fluid down to the add mark even after being topped up to the full mark then migrating back down to the add mark!...never any further..

    OzDan...I read about you grabbing gregs pushrod on some of the american sites...its working ok for you i guess? i think this is the route im gonna take after warranty is out in march..

    gonna be monitoring this fluid level carefully over the next service interval

    (By the way, I still love my M8 to bits)

    EDIT:clarity

    Mate, I put in the Williams pushrod as a preventative measure. I have 30,000km and have riden it all day at 100km/h riding to Melbourne.....I have never seen my dipstick at anything other than full......just got sick of checking......

    I’m yet to hear of a single instance where the Williams rod doesn’t fix the issue. Speaking to Greg in person, he tells me one bike he looks after would empty the trans in under a few thousand miles......it’s had his rod installed, and not a drop has transferred in 10,000 miles....

    Seems to be the real deal.
  • SquALeD Posts: 65
    Stock Poster SquALeD
    04 Dec 2018 08:17 PM
    Quoting SquALeD on 04 Dec 2018 07:02 PMedited: 04 Dec 2018 08:15 PM
    Ive just ridden my 2017 M8 RoadGlide to Phillip Island for the MotoGP and back...Before I left the trans fluid was right on the full mark on the dipstickat the 8000k service.  Checked it a day later (1000km later) no change..I didnt check it again untill I got to bordertown on the way back so about 4500km total so far...It was off the stick. Had to put about 300ml in to bring the level back up to the full mark, this level didnt change despite seeing 42 deg days and sitting at 140kmh/3500rpm with bursts up to 180ish when overtaking for about another 2 days when i got to madura pass. by the time i got back to perth it was halfway in the x between the 2 lines, this was after 1.5 days or so sitting at 100/110kmh and 2800ish rpm back in the urban areas after norseman....

    I did roundabout a full service interval in 8-9 days riding (7500km) and i can say, on my bike at least the migration seems to be worse when travelling at around 100kmh in top than, say sitting on the nulla for a few days at 140kmh/3500rpm...i think its deffo caused when the motor gets into a certain rpm/speed/load range...

    I mentioned this to a dealer here in Perth and was told yes, weve had one do this but it was impossible for this to occur via the clutch pushrod tunnel....we drained 1.4l out of the primary after i got back...Strange thing is that the level didnt change one bit going up to the 8000k service

    This is a real odd one...ive read on the us sites about some bikes doing it from new then stopping later, something to do with the slipper clutch? some bikes not doing it then starting later and one that repeatedly migrated its trans fluid down to the add mark even after being topped up to the full mark then migrating back down to the add mark!...never any further..

    OzDan...I read about you grabbing gregs pushrod on some of the american sites...its working ok for you i guess? i think this is the route im gonna take after warranty is out in march..

    gonna be monitoring this fluid level carefully over the next service interval

    (By the way, I still love my M8 to bits)

    EDIT:clarity

    Quoting Oz Dan on 04 Dec 2018 07:28 PMedited: 04 Dec 2018 07:29 PM
    Mate, I put in the Williams pushrod as a preventative measure. I have 30,000km and have riden it all day at 100km/h riding to Melbourne.....I have never seen my dipstick at anything other than full......just got sick of checking......

    I’m yet to hear of a single instance where the Williams rod doesn’t fix the issue. Speaking to Greg in person, he tells me one bike he looks after would empty the trans in under a few thousand miles......it’s had his rod installed, and not a drop has transferred in 10,000 miles....

    Seems to be the real deal.
    This looks the go...im doing the same trip next year and dont want to be riding worrying "what if"

    Im gonna grab one for fitment after warrantys out in march

    cheers!
  • SquALeD Posts: 65
    Stock Poster SquALeD
    04 Dec 2018 11:50 PM
    Heres one tho...If the Williams rod is as simple and effective as it claims to be (and i dont doubt that it isnt - im goonna grab one)

    How come the moco hasnt worked it out?
  • mickle Posts: 1888
    Meadow Heights Victoria
    Motor Head mickle
    05 Dec 2018 08:02 AM
    Quoting SquALeD on 04 Dec 2018 11:50 PM
    Heres one tho...If the Williams rod is as simple and effective as it claims to be (and i dont doubt that it isnt - im goonna grab one)

    How come the moco hasnt worked it out?
    You arnt the first to ask this question.
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2283
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    05 Dec 2018 08:20 AM
    Seems to me the real fix is convert to cable clutch, I can't see any advantage with a Hydraulic clutch. we had hydraulic clutch in cars in old day's, a performance upgrade was to go mechanical clutch as they release much quicker.
    but seems to me from reading peoples experience, I would drain primary then fill it with recommended amount less a few oz & fill gear box. as topping gearbox when oil has moved to the primary, will just put too much in primary. the factory could machine a vent and use same oil primary & gear box like sportsters , I can't see a problem with that. I've ridden a M8 and they make good TQ nice motor.  
  • Oz Dan Posts: 219
    QLD
    Stock Poster Oz Dan
    05 Dec 2018 08:22 AM
    Quoting SquALeD on 04 Dec 2018 11:50 PM
    Heres one tho...If the Williams rod is as simple and effective as it claims to be (and i dont doubt that it isnt - im goonna grab one)

    How come the moco hasnt worked it out?
    Penny pinching is my guess. The Williams rod is twice as thick and has a machined flat so the primary can still breath. The HD rod would be much cheaper to produce. Times this cost by 250,000 or so units.....and you perhaps have your answer.
  • Oz Dan Posts: 219
    QLD
    Stock Poster Oz Dan
    05 Dec 2018 08:23 AM
    Quoting Krash Kinkade on 05 Dec 2018 08:20 AM
    Seems to me the real fix is convert to cable clutch, I can't see any advantage with a Hydraulic clutch. we had hydraulic clutch in cars in old day's, a performance upgrade was to go mechanical clutch as they release much quicker.
    but seems to me from reading peoples experience, I would drain primary then fill it with recommended amount less a few oz & fill gear box. as topping gearbox when oil has moved to the primary, will just put too much in primary. the factory could machine a vent and use same oil primary & gear box like sportsters , I can't see a problem with that. I've ridden a M8 and they make good TQ nice motor.  
    Hydraulic clutches have the advantage (over cable) that they never need adjustment. That can prove useful on high mileage touring bikes.

    And plenty of bikes never experience any migration anyway.
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2283
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    05 Dec 2018 08:44 AM
    Quoting Krash Kinkade on 05 Dec 2018 08:20 AM
    Seems to me the real fix is convert to cable clutch, I can't see any advantage with a Hydraulic clutch. we had hydraulic clutch in cars in old day's, a performance upgrade was to go mechanical clutch as they release much quicker.
    but seems to me from reading peoples experience, I would drain primary then fill it with recommended amount less a few oz & fill gear box. as topping gearbox when oil has moved to the primary, will just put too much in primary. the factory could machine a vent and use same oil primary & gear box like sportsters , I can't see a problem with that. I've ridden a M8 and they make good TQ nice motor.  
    Quoting Oz Dan on 05 Dec 2018 08:23 AMedited: 05 Dec 2018 08:35 AM
    Hydraulic clutches have the advantage (over cable) that they never need adjustment. That can prove useful on high mileage touring bikes.

    And plenty of bikes never experience any migration anyway.
    Hi Dan , I've done high mileage and very rarely need to adjust a clutch cable and if I do takes me a few minutes to do two open end spanners (easy )
  • Oz Dan Posts: 219
    QLD
    Stock Poster Oz Dan
    05 Dec 2018 08:51 AM
    Quoting Krash Kinkade on 05 Dec 2018 08:20 AM
    Seems to me the real fix is convert to cable clutch, I can't see any advantage with a Hydraulic clutch. we had hydraulic clutch in cars in old day's, a performance upgrade was to go mechanical clutch as they release much quicker.
    but seems to me from reading peoples experience, I would drain primary then fill it with recommended amount less a few oz & fill gear box. as topping gearbox when oil has moved to the primary, will just put too much in primary. the factory could machine a vent and use same oil primary & gear box like sportsters , I can't see a problem with that. I've ridden a M8 and they make good TQ nice motor.  
    Quoting Oz Dan on 05 Dec 2018 08:23 AMedited: 05 Dec 2018 08:35 AM
    Hydraulic clutches have the advantage (over cable) that they never need adjustment. That can prove useful on high mileage touring bikes.

    And plenty of bikes never experience any migration anyway.
    Quoting Krash Kinkade on 05 Dec 2018 08:44 AM
    Hi Dan , I've done high mileage and very rarely need to adjust a clutch cable and if I do takes me a few minutes to do two open end spanners (easy )
    Hi Krash - I’m just stating the main advantage of a hydraulic clutch since you put you couldnt see any advantage. You wouldn’t have ever needed to adjust it if it had been hydraulic. And for many folks, it’s beyond them to do it themselves anyway. Clutch cables have also been known to break.

    It’d be interesting to know how many hydraulic clutch bikes since 2014 have the transfer issue. That’s when this started. Prior to that, they used a pushrod similar to the Williams piece.

    If someone is touring, say doing the big lap, they don’t want any dramas. Sort of ironic that this then happens! But that’s why the tourers use a hydraulic setup I’m guessing.....
  • dyna13 Posts: 116
    Stock Poster dyna13
    05 Dec 2018 10:19 AM
    Still bet the amount of bikes doing it is much higher than know, many wouldn’t  even know it’s happening
  • Oz Dan Posts: 219
    QLD
    Stock Poster Oz Dan
    05 Dec 2018 10:54 AM
    Quoting dyna13 on 05 Dec 2018 10:19 AM
    Still bet the amount of bikes doing it is much higher than know, many wouldn’t  even know it’s happening
    Yeah agreed. I’ve checked a handful of mates M8 tourers and all were fine, but most people never check or the dealer just drops all 3 holes.

    For anyone wanting to read discussion on the Williams rod, there is info on Facebook......I’m not on it, but I borrowed my missus’ iPad......if you go to M8 Owners page, search pushrod......plenty of discussion.
  • dyna13 Posts: 116
    Stock Poster dyna13
    05 Dec 2018 09:18 PM
    So what damage can be done to the primary/transmission if say 200/300+ml transfers, clutch slipping? Hard to select gear,neutral? Or if your on a long ride what would be early indicators if a mass transferred in say a 10 hour ride.
  • Oz Dan Posts: 219
    QLD
    Stock Poster Oz Dan
    05 Dec 2018 09:50 PM
    Quoting dyna13 on 05 Dec 2018 09:18 PM
    So what damage can be done to the primary/transmission if say 200/300+ml transfers, clutch slipping? Hard to select gear,neutral? Or if your on a long ride what would be early indicators if a mass transferred in say a 10 hour ride.
    From what I read probably no damage with that amount of oil loss. If you have no clutch slip and no issues finding neutral, it’s very unlikely you have hurt your trans......just top it off, and get someone to loosen your derby cover whilst you keep the bike upright and level, and allow the excess oil in the primary to spill out.

    Once you’re sick of HD’s bullshit, order and fit the Williams pushrod or Stonecold’s fix kit. Both work.
  • dyna13 Posts: 116
    Stock Poster dyna13
    05 Dec 2018 10:07 PM
    500ml extra in SquALeDs seems like a hell of a lot extra in primary? Primary holds approx 900ml according to owners manual so wondering what would occur 
  • brucefxdl Posts: 917
    south west victoria
    Performance Poster brucefxdl
    05 Dec 2018 11:09 PM
    Quoting dyna13 on 05 Dec 2018 10:07 PMedited: 05 Dec 2018 10:08 PM
    500ml extra in SquALeDs seems like a hell of a lot extra in primary? Primary holds approx 900ml according to owners manual so wondering what would occur 
    i'd be more concerned about less than 1/2 the normal amount in the trans.
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