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  • rodders Posts: 5692
    Victoria
    Forum Legend rodders
    13 Mar 2018 08:53 AM
    Hope you got your bike sorted CD. If not then I suggest you google Australian Consumer Law. Read and understand it and refer to it with any future dealings on warranty related issues. A warranty issue can be resolved by any dealer. You are not obligated to use the selling dealer. 
    Good luck with it all. 
  • Ratbob Posts: 551
    Adelaide Hills
    Performance Poster Ratbob
    13 Mar 2018 10:39 AM
    Posted by Cropduster on 13 Mar 2018 08:56 AM
    Posted by rodders on 13 Mar 2018 08:53 AM
    Hope you got your bike sorted CD. If not then I suggest you google Australian Consumer Law. Read and understand it and refer to it with any future dealings on warranty related issues. A warranty issue can be resolved by any dealer. You are not obligated to use the selling dealer. 
    Good luck with it all. 

     Cheers mate

    Apologies to RatRob for threadjacking, wasn't my intention mate.


     No worries Cropduster, it's been an interesting read and shows how (for want of a better word) passionate our band of gypsies can be.

    Personally I think HD, as the licensing agent, does need to play an active and lead role in managing their dealer's behavior. 
    One way to do that is to accept and be proactive with client feedback.

    Enjoy your ride, looks great.

  • hithere Posts: 57
    Stock Poster hithere
    13 Mar 2018 05:08 PM
    Could you email Harley-Davidson Australia?  I don't know if there is a general customer relations email address but if you are truly dissatisfied and no one else can help, maybe an email to these folks might help.

    Nigel Keough (Managing Director HD Australia & NZ)
    nigel.keough@harley-davidson.com

    Adam Wright (HD Marketing Manager)
    adam.wright@harley-davidson.com


  • Scouser Posts: 1847
    Marion, South Australia
    Motor Head Scouser
    13 Mar 2018 05:58 PM
    Posted by hithere on 13 Mar 2018 05:08 PM
    Could you email Harley-Davidson Australia?  I don't know if there is a general customer relations email address but if you are truly dissatisfied and no one else can help, maybe an email to these folks might help.

    Nigel Keough (Managing Director HD Australia & NZ)
    nigel.keough@harley-davidson.com

    Adam Wright (HD Marketing Manager)
    adam.wright@harley-davidson.com


     I had a bit of a problem with my old Dyna  and I contacted Adam and he sorted it out, 

  • Ratbob Posts: 551
    Adelaide Hills
    Performance Poster Ratbob
    13 Mar 2018 08:37 PM
    Posted by hithere on 13 Mar 2018 05:08 PM
    Could you email Harley-Davidson Australia?  I don't know if there is a general customer relations email address but if you are truly dissatisfied and no one else can help, maybe an email to these folks might help.

    Nigel Keough (Managing Director HD Australia & NZ)
    nigel.keough@harley-davidson.com

    Adam Wright (HD Marketing Manager)
    adam.wright@harley-davidson.com


     Wow, thanks hithere, that’s proper useful high class info. Cheers !

  • hithere Posts: 57
    Stock Poster hithere
    13 Mar 2018 11:28 PM
    Posted by Ratbob on 13 Mar 2018 08:37 PM
     Wow, thanks hithere, that’s proper useful high class info. Cheers !

    Great to hear.  Hope it helps someone out!  

  • Ratbob Posts: 551
    Adelaide Hills
    Performance Poster Ratbob
    14 Mar 2018 02:45 PM
    Bugger me, HD Australia returned my call today, asked for info to be sent.
    Will be interesting to see how it goes from here.
  • hithere Posts: 57
    Stock Poster hithere
    14 Mar 2018 03:34 PM
    Posted by Ratbob on 14 Mar 2018 02:45 PM
    Bugger me, HD Australia returned my call today, asked for info to be sent.
    Will be interesting to see how it goes from here.

     Keep us informed mate.  As much as I want RK Special once all the M8 issues are sorted and the new frame is introduced, I am not spending money with a company that does not value their customers.

  • Ratbob Posts: 551
    Adelaide Hills
    Performance Poster Ratbob
    28 Mar 2018 11:22 AM
    Good news is that after sending in the info HD Aust requested, (two weeks ago) the dealer called me yesterday and advised that they will, at no obligation to me, (I already have my refund) bring in a third seat and if that doesn't fit, they (HD Aust via the dealer) will engage a leathersmith to look at what can be made from the combo of  three seats.

    So I'm happy with that, it has taken a while, first seat ordered in December but it's good that HD Aust is taking an active (albeit behind the scenes) role to look after a customer.
  • Ratbob Posts: 551
    Adelaide Hills
    Performance Poster Ratbob
    29 May 2018 03:23 PM
    The outcome of my contacting HD Aust ended poorly.
    After 3 seats over 5 months, HD Aust have now said the dead straight pen mark across the first seat they sent is part of the leather's patina so there's nothing wrong with it, this is a complete turnaround from their original position.  Good thing Harley Heaven gave me a refund on that one.

    As the second seat they sent didn't fit and the third was a completely different colour leather and didn't fit correctly either, I've decided not to purchase any of them.

    Gotta say though that Harley Heaven Adelaide couldn't have been more helpful. 
    Shannon did his best and kept me informed throughout.

    So it seems you can get through to HD Aust, just don't expect rational service.
  • Muzza Wa Posts: 229
    Stock Poster Muzza Wa
    01 Jun 2018 12:28 AM
    I can’t believe how some have you have reacted to the posts detailing the issues that were experienced by cropduster. The issues raised concerning the receipts and the bad workmanship should be dealt with by HD if raised to them, if the dealer concerned is not prepared to handle the matters themselves.

    HD appointment the dealers and I am positive that they expect those dealers to abide by the HD codes of conduct, because after all, the dealer network represents 100% of HD”s business in Australia, and it is in HD’s interests to ensure that their customers are handled in such a way that they keep coming back.  Voting with your feet does not solve the fundamental problem of the inaccurate commercial documentation provided and the apparent bad workmanship, in fact, it allows it to happen and then continue. If things like this go on unchecked, then eventually voting with your feet doesn’t work because either you have to travel over half round the country to find a good dealer, or there are no good dealers left for you to deal with , because none of the dealers are kept in check by the HD Channel Manager, so we have to settle with shit service, or buy different types of bikes, which none of us want to do I’m sure!

    Did you raise the issues concerning the paperwork and bad workmanship with HD? If so what was the outcome of that discussion?

    I am however not surprised that a one paulybronco stirred the shit, he’s a master at that!


  • paulybronco Posts: 10485
    Forum Legend paulybronco
    01 Jun 2018 09:41 AM
    Quoting Muzza Wa on 01 Jun 2018 12:28 AM
    I can’t believe how some have you have reacted to the posts detailing the issues that were experienced by cropduster. The issues raised concerning the receipts and the bad workmanship should be dealt with by HD if raised to them, if the dealer concerned is not prepared to handle the matters themselves.

    HD appointment the dealers and I am positive that they expect those dealers to abide by the HD codes of conduct, because after all, the dealer network represents 100% of HD”s business in Australia, and it is in HD’s interests to ensure that their customers are handled in such a way that they keep coming back.  Voting with your feet does not solve the fundamental problem of the inaccurate commercial documentation provided and the apparent bad workmanship, in fact, it allows it to happen and then continue. If things like this go on unchecked, then eventually voting with your feet doesn’t work because either you have to travel over half round the country to find a good dealer, or there are no good dealers left for you to deal with , because none of the dealers are kept in check by the HD Channel Manager, so we have to settle with shit service, or buy different types of bikes, which none of us want to do I’m sure!

    Did you raise the issues concerning the paperwork and bad workmanship with HD? If so what was the outcome of that discussion?

    I am however not surprised that a one paulybronco stirred the shit, he’s a master at that!


    Muzza as a previous general manager of a bike shop doing ALL the brands including HD but excluding Yamaha i have a fairly good idea on how the importer/s distributors and dealer franchises work with the dealers. My comments reflect that experience yet people still want to blame other people for their misfortune. One more time.....the problem lays with the dealer. If you call it shit stirring for pointing out the facts so be it. And what is a Channel Manager,? Been in the industry a long time and never heard of that term
  • Ratbob Posts: 551
    Adelaide Hills
    Performance Poster Ratbob
    01 Jun 2018 10:05 AM
    As you wrote Muzza
    “I am however not surprised that a one paulybronco stirred the shit, he’s a master at that!”

    You may have missed it Muzza but a recent forum poll confirmed Pauly is a big C. 

    However, while he often treads heavily, his observations are annoyingly correct. 

    (Pauly I think Channel Manager is a recent term for account manager, it’s used a fair bit in the hotel business, ie you might get bookings via various sites and it’s the channel managers role to coordinate it all.)

  • boxa Posts: 608
    Performance Poster boxa
    01 Jun 2018 10:34 AM
    Mmmm ., Can see both sides of the arguement here ,,, Firstly , yes it was a dealer issue and they should fix it , Its not up to Harley to fix non warranty problems the dealer made , If the dealer is dodging the paper work to get factory bonuses , ect well , Let Harley sort that out, and if there not concerned , can't see why whats written on a invoice matters , HAS LONG AS IT DON'T AFFECT WARRANTY . .
    BUT
    On the other hand , Harley have a brand they spend a lot promoting that brand , they make dealers  jump through hoops , and pay big money to become a dealer , SO if one dealer  is fucking people over it reflects on there brand , and THEY DO  have enough power to tell set dealer , FIX IT ,  after all ,  its there brand ,
  • paulybronco Posts: 10485
    Forum Legend paulybronco
    01 Jun 2018 10:49 AM
    Quoting Ratbob on 01 Jun 2018 10:05 AM
    As you wrote Muzza
    “I am however not surprised that a one paulybronco stirred the shit, he’s a master at that!”

    You may have missed it Muzza but a recent forum poll confirmed Pauly is a big C. 

    However, while he often treads heavily, his observations are annoyingly correct. 

    (Pauly I think Channel Manager is a recent term for account manager, it’s used a fair bit in the hotel business, ie you might get bookings via various sites and it’s the channel managers role to coordinate it all.)

    LOL about the Chanel manager.
  • paulybronco Posts: 10485
    Forum Legend paulybronco
    01 Jun 2018 11:00 AM
    Quoting boxa on 01 Jun 2018 10:34 AM
    Mmmm ., Can see both sides of the arguement here ,,, Firstly , yes it was a dealer issue and they should fix it , Its not up to Harley to fix non warranty problems the dealer made , If the dealer is dodging the paper work to get factory bonuses , ect well , Let Harley sort that out, and if there not concerned , can't see why whats written on a invoice matters , HAS LONG AS IT DON'T AFFECT WARRANTY . .
    BUT
    On the other hand , Harley have a brand they spend a lot promoting that brand , they make dealers  jump through hoops , and pay big money to become a dealer , SO if one dealer  is fucking people over it reflects on there brand , and THEY DO  have enough power to tell set dealer , FIX IT ,  after all ,  its there brand ,
    Cheers Boxa, your on the money. The dealer in both instances are at fault. We all got bonuses from the importer should we sell the correct quota of bikes or cars, that was worked out on not just delivered but REGISTERED......so if we were 3 bikes/cars short of getting the bonus what did you think happened......we registered them as DEMO cars/bikes. They may not have a single klm on them when you sell them but they were sold as a demo with the REMAINDER of the factory warranty left. Thankfully i have never been in the situation that that dealer has put himself in. The dealer should acknowledge the error, put his hand on his chest and honour the deal as if it was a new bike. 
  • Muzza Wa Posts: 229
    Stock Poster Muzza Wa
    01 Jun 2018 12:17 PM
    A Channel Manager is a term used to describe a person who’s role it is to manage a business’s preferred “channel” to market, which in HD’s case is via a Distribution model or if you like their Dealership network. Their role, the Channel Manager, is to manage things like marketing, branding, stock levels, type of stock held, minimum qualifications for mechanics, conformance to the OEM standard, documented methods of doing things, ADHERANCE to the business principles that HD define, like FCPA for example, I think you get the picture.  All I’m saying is that if HD want to continue to enjoy iconic brand status, that it is in their own interest to ensure that the buying public keeps coming back, for obvious reasons, and if that means getting involved in sorting things out that are obviously not right, then that’s what they should be doing.  Unfortunately many OEM’s are so reliant on their channel to market strategy that the distribution/ dealer network wields all the power and the consumer often suffers the way cropduster has, and that situation often leads to a lack of growth, cost cutting and pissed off customers.

    I know a little about this, having been a Channel Manager myself for a Milwaukee based global brand for many years during my so far 31 year tenure in the company. We would not have allowed the two specific examples I picked up on (the commercial invoice, and the shoddy workmanship) to go unchecked, and either the dealer would have been made to correct the issues at their cost, or we would have arranged for it to be done on behalf of the dealer, if the alleged situation turned out to be true. Unfortunately the boosting of sold units is a practice sometimes supported by the OEM’s Channel Manager because he is also measured and rewarded by the success of the dealer network, so it’s not uncommon to find that he/she is complicit in that process, which leads to difficulty (ask cropduster) when things do not go according to plan. It’s why, btw, many OEM’s that use a distributor/dealership model, have a Customer Care team, available on hand, contactable by the Customer, to address issues such as those that cropduster experienced. They are measured on customer satisfaction ratings, not units sold!

    Does this answer your question paulybronco? And yes, what you wrote “Thankfully i have never been in the situation that that dealer has put himself in. The dealer should acknowledge the error, put his hand on his chest and honour the deal as if it was a new bike.”  is exactly and all that cropduster wanted, and when the dealer does not make it right, HD should be stepping in! 
  • paulybronco Posts: 10485
    Forum Legend paulybronco
    01 Jun 2018 02:20 PM
    Quoting Muzza Wa on 01 Jun 2018 12:17 PM
    A Channel Manager is a term used to describe a person who’s role it is to manage a business’s preferred “channel” to market, which in HD’s case is via a Distribution model or if you like their Dealership network. Their role, the Channel Manager, is to manage things like marketing, branding, stock levels, type of stock held, minimum qualifications for mechanics, conformance to the OEM standard, documented methods of doing things, ADHERANCE to the business principles that HD define, like FCPA for example, I think you get the picture.  All I’m saying is that if HD want to continue to enjoy iconic brand status, that it is in their own interest to ensure that the buying public keeps coming back, for obvious reasons, and if that means getting involved in sorting things out that are obviously not right, then that’s what they should be doing.  Unfortunately many OEM’s are so reliant on their channel to market strategy that the distribution/ dealer network wields all the power and the consumer often suffers the way cropduster has, and that situation often leads to a lack of growth, cost cutting and pissed off customers.

    I know a little about this, having been a Channel Manager myself for a Milwaukee based global brand for many years during my so far 31 year tenure in the company. We would not have allowed the two specific examples I picked up on (the commercial invoice, and the shoddy workmanship) to go unchecked, and either the dealer would have been made to correct the issues at their cost, or we would have arranged for it to be done on behalf of the dealer, if the alleged situation turned out to be true. Unfortunately the boosting of sold units is a practice sometimes supported by the OEM’s Channel Manager because he is also measured and rewarded by the success of the dealer network, so it’s not uncommon to find that he/she is complicit in that process, which leads to difficulty (ask cropduster) when things do not go according to plan. It’s why, btw, many OEM’s that use a distributor/dealership model, have a Customer Care team, available on hand, contactable by the Customer, to address issues such as those that cropduster experienced. They are measured on customer satisfaction ratings, not units sold!

    Does this answer your question paulybronco? And yes, what you wrote “Thankfully i have never been in the situation that that dealer has put himself in. The dealer should acknowledge the error, put his hand on his chest and honour the deal as if it was a new bike.”  is exactly and all that cropduster wanted, and when the dealer does not make it right, HD should be stepping in! 
    Thanks for your reply. In the motor trade in Australia the Reps responsibility are far less. The rep has NO authority for compliance of staff and matters of day to day running. National service managers for HD arrange training days for the dealers teams /mechanics and are paid for by the dealer. There are compulsory training days when new engines are about to hit the market etc.  It is in a dealers best interest to get your team upskilled and most major dealers have at least one master tech on the team.
    I agree that we disagree about this being a HD problem, the dealer needs to fix it and if he cant/wont then the people who provided him with his dealer lic certainly can.
  • Muzza Wa Posts: 229
    Stock Poster Muzza Wa
    01 Jun 2018 04:48 PM
    So we agree!
  • paulybronco Posts: 10485
    Forum Legend paulybronco
    01 Jun 2018 05:19 PM
    Quoting Muzza Wa on 01 Jun 2018 04:48 PM
    So we agree!
    We agree that we disagree......anyway regardless of our debate the dealer still had not fixed the issue last time i looked
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