Who's online: brash, ratly, dyna matt, dilmah, Hilly, Evo, hipman, Guests: 227
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  • friday Posts: 95
    Stock Poster friday
    13 Sep 2018 06:15 AM
    some old HD and Indian FWs have the holes drilled opposite the crank , then there are some that have holes drilled on the rim close to the crank < are these ones evidence of dynamic balanced ?

    Jim Mosher had his salt bike dynamic balanced , they have rim holes

    http://performanceindian.com/Bottom%20End.html
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2226
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    13 Sep 2018 12:22 PM
    Quoting friday on 13 Sep 2018 06:15 AM
    some old HD and Indian FWs have the holes drilled opposite the crank , then there are some that have holes drilled on the rim close to the crank < are these ones evidence of dynamic balanced ?

    Jim Mosher had his salt bike dynamic balanced , they have rim holes

    http://performanceindian.com/Bottom%20End.html
    I think the factory static balanced some of the old ones. and the drill holes in flywheel could be result. my Shovel had them in the stock cast iron flywheels. but the S&S Flywheels steel or forged same as they still use. only new late model S&S Use the big pressed pin ( just the fit different to stock late HD big pin ) never seen an S&S pin slip but seen Harley big pins slip.
    I have seen Flywheels John Treese has made a complete one off, top Fuel HD motor John made too , made to use a Wibble Supercharger he made the heads cast with a stainless steel chamber that is cast into the head. but you don't see John's motors on the internet. the flywheels Jim Mosher has pictured , are the same as the flywheel my shovel has. you can remove metal, or you can add this really expensive & heavy gold metal you press in. but unless you lighten some flywheels a lot you rarely see the heavy pressed in, to add weight in Harley's. but see it in V8 racing cranks a lot especially speedway sprint cars. you only need to dynamic balance once, then if you need new pistons you just remove metal off pistons or pin, to get weight to same as original dynamic balance.
  • Hilly Posts: 2342
    Townsville
    Motor Head Hilly
    13 Sep 2018 05:05 PM
    Makes sense, is John still working Krash?
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2226
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    14 Sep 2018 08:58 AM
    Quoting Hilly on 13 Sep 2018 05:05 PM
    Makes sense, is John still working Krash?
    Hilly, not sure if John is still working, but was told he goes to the salt in SA.
    when I see Cow I will ask.
    you have meet him & seen his work. if he had a web page he would have been over run with work. I told some Americans about products he designed and made. they all searched the net could not find anything.
    he even made the masters & had a cam manufacture in Victoria make cams for him.
    The PanMan ( I think he might have died ) he used to say, when he was working at Sturgis, customers of pistons he designed would come with questions & ask advice. then would ask for his web address . he said if you haven't got a web address they think you can't be that good.
    The Top Fuel heads John made I saw them and the stainless chamber was cast into alloy. I have seen a lot of old top fuel Harley heads with stainless chambers, but all the others were bolted in stainless chamber, not cast in ( very hard to do!! ).
    my old sporty not in same class as John's!! LOL

  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2226
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    27 Sep 2018 04:58 PM
    HD Forums Australia - IMG_2476.JPG

    HD Forums Australia - IMG_2477.JPG


    Flywheels have been Resized ( forgot to mention when flywheels split pin & roller bearings all like new, but big end of rods shaped like an egg, for was resized now perfect ) , Balanced , Trued & welded

    happy with result!! the way I look at it bottom end is an important part of motor, to build a performance motor you need to do that too, or you only half do it.

    All done in Australia.



  • friday Posts: 95
    Stock Poster friday
    28 Sep 2018 05:49 AM
    did Treese build a sporty with high single cam ?
    push rods of both cyl , positioned in the centre of the V , therefore front pipe = facing east , rear pipe facing east
    Im trying to remember 20 yr ago mag article
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2226
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    28 Sep 2018 09:33 AM
    Quoting friday on 28 Sep 2018 05:49 AM
    did Treese build a sporty with high single cam ?
    push rods of both cyl , positioned in the centre of the V , therefore front pipe = facing east , rear pipe facing east
    Im trying to remember 20 yr ago mag article
    John Treese has done a lot of thing's over the years. that you don't see anything written online.
    I just know what I've seen with my own eyes. that was a compleat Top Fuel ( Nitro motor ) looks like a panhead, built for a wibble supercharger.
    I saw the panheads he modified for Metho Tom's sidecar outfit, he also made a complete motor for that same sidecar outfit. 
    but to best of my knowledge his race sporty uses Panheads , like the ones I looked at ( they where fantastic changed the chamber & manifold. he manufactured his our cam masters & got a victorian cam manufacturer to make cams to his design for his race sportster. that makes good low end Torque too. but I don't know about the ohc heads ( I could not see an advantage).
  • tussuck Posts: 1463
    Melbourne
    Performance Poster tussuck
    28 Sep 2018 08:44 PM
    Quoting Krash Kinkade on 27 Sep 2018 04:58 PMedited: 10 Oct 2018 08:54 AM
    HD Forums Australia - IMG_2476.JPG

    HD Forums Australia - IMG_2477.JPG


    Flywheels have been Resized ( forgot to mention when flywheels split pin & roller bearings all like new, but big end of rods shaped like an egg, for was resized now perfect ) , Balanced , Trued & welded

    happy with result!! the way I look at it bottom end is an important part of motor, to build a performance motor you need to do that too, or you only half do it.

    All done in Australia.



    There was a great article a few years back about welding vs pinning vs other approaches to the flywheel and the shear strength of each solution.  Oddly enough welding came out as the weakest.
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2226
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    29 Sep 2018 06:47 AM
    Quoting Krash Kinkade on 27 Sep 2018 04:58 PMedited: 10 Oct 2018 08:54 AM
    HD Forums Australia - IMG_2476.JPG

    HD Forums Australia - IMG_2477.JPG


    Flywheels have been Resized ( forgot to mention when flywheels split pin & roller bearings all like new, but big end of rods shaped like an egg, for was resized now perfect ) , Balanced , Trued & welded

    happy with result!! the way I look at it bottom end is an important part of motor, to build a performance motor you need to do that too, or you only half do it.

    All done in Australia.



    Quoting tussuck on 28 Sep 2018 08:44 PM
    There was a great article a few years back about welding vs pinning vs other approaches to the flywheel and the shear strength of each solution.  Oddly enough welding came out as the weakest.
    could be right, but I had a Twin Cam dyna from new, the crank pin was the 1.5", I don't know what the HP & TQ was as had a few tunes on that motor, but it was stock Harley flywheels. well the crank pin never broke but it slipped & took out the oil pump at end of the cam side shaft . throw away flywheels, had to get new set, got lucky as got a low k set, from a motor that was made big inch . welded the pin, just like this one, the motor still going ten years on. I did a lot of pass's at drags & road the bike to race, as far north as QLD & VIC south, reving to 7,200 rpm in speed traps ( rev limit I had set ).
    then with Nitro Harleys ( Shumaker 120 cubic inch ) every crank rebuild the pin was welded in same as this & they had a smaller pin than the twin cam. they could not run roller bearings as the shock from burning high % of nitro just shatters the roller bearings. John Treese made a sleave type bearing . latter I saw bigger inch  ( 180 cubic inch ) Alloy male female rods no bearings at all just alloy to case hardened crank pin. saw , they were billet rods, saw a lot of male female rods brake, was always the female rod that breaks . when that happens it takes everything with it.
    In all my years riding Harleys ( all build for speed ) I have only seen three crank pins broken, they were all EVO big Twin bolt together type crank pins. ( not saying they are not strong ). I did not have the crank pin welded for strength, I had it welded to keep it true. not worried about the strength .
  • Hilly Posts: 2342
    Townsville
    Motor Head Hilly
    29 Sep 2018 09:08 AM
    From what I've gleaned some slip some don't, pressing an expansion plug into the crank pin has been proven to be the best preventive measure to stop the scissoring from occurring, welding the plug to the pin was done as a safety measure so the plug can't back out and take out the cases, welding the pin to the crank may help but if that crank is not plugged and it's going to slip the welds will most likely crack, seen lots of photos over the years of this happening, everyone's experience may be different and how the crank is treated might have a big say in how well it holds up, stock, plugged or whatever.
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2226
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    29 Sep 2018 01:41 PM
    Quoting Hilly on 29 Sep 2018 09:08 AM
    From what I've gleaned some slip some don't, pressing an expansion plug into the crank pin has been proven to be the best preventive measure to stop the scissoring from occurring, welding the plug to the pin was done as a safety measure so the plug can't back out and take out the cases, welding the pin to the crank may help but if that crank is not plugged and it's going to slip the welds will most likely crack, seen lots of photos over the years of this happening, everyone's experience may be different and how the crank is treated might have a big say in how well it holds up, stock, plugged or whatever.
    Hi Hilly, we had a very knowledgable HD factory trouble shooter, very smart man.
    When I was building to go fast with twin cam. I mentioned to him I was worried crank pin would slip. he said they are fitted at tighter tolerance 's than the XR 750 flat track racers. but mine slipped.
    S&S never slip as fitted like your saying, but Harley crank pins do, seen a few but not all riders put them to the limit.
    this motor won't see the stress my twin cam has seen as not building it for high rev's or high HP. I'm confident and will take to the track & race.
    thanks for your thoughts.
    I think if I was planing on higher revs crank could break. won't stop me riding it everywhere & enjoying it.
  • Hilly Posts: 2342
    Townsville
    Motor Head Hilly
    29 Sep 2018 05:39 PM
    All good Krash, you know what you are doing, I don't think your sporty crank will slip, twin cams, even S&S can, S&S much less likely but I've seen pics of it, god knows what happened in the way of abuse to cause the problem though, my comment about scissoring was only twin cam related, their pin strength is a whole other story as is rods etc.
    Loving the build story, keep it coming, don't mind me.
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2226
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    29 Sep 2018 09:25 PM
    Quoting Hilly on 29 Sep 2018 05:39 PM
    All good Krash, you know what you are doing, I don't think your sporty crank will slip, twin cams, even S&S can, S&S much less likely but I've seen pics of it, god knows what happened in the way of abuse to cause the problem though, my comment about scissoring was only twin cam related, their pin strength is a whole other story as is rods etc.
    Loving the build story, keep it coming, don't mind me.
    Thanks Hilly, the Twin Cams , now making lot of HP & TQ, but they have strong Flywheels!!
    my one had 70,000k up when it slipped and that many passes down quarter. I used to go to the track almost every week if not raining.
    surprising it still ran 11's with the crank pin slipped, but trap speed went from 120's mph to 112mph.
    pulled heads & could not believe how hard it was to turn motor over. surprised me it even done 112mph standing quarter.
    welded new crank pin in and that was 10 years back still going.
    I loved that bike! 
    the sporty lighter, but can feel the vibes! but lot smoother than the old Shovel I had. just have to see how it goes down quarter.
    cheers
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2226
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    05 Oct 2018 06:46 PM
    HD Forums Australia - IMG_2484.JPG
    Well Her heart almost together, she has a nice set of Hammer Billet lifter block's and Hammer adjustable push rods, Hammer Billet intake manifold ( only manifold in the world made to bolt Carb to late EFI ) have a Hammer Billet air cleaner, all the Hammer products nicely machined & look first class. she has the old cone ignition like my old cone Shovelhead, could use points if wanted too. you see all the guru's making ignition timing curves, but back a few decades was in USA and a guy with an old Sporty with just points ran 9 seconds standing quarter. still a good time for a street HD. but just have to wait see how this one runs.

  • Hilly Posts: 2342
    Townsville
    Motor Head Hilly
    05 Oct 2018 10:12 PM
    I like points, 95% of all cars I've owned ran points, at least I could fix them when they played up, looking good Krash, not long now
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2226
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    05 Oct 2018 10:17 PM
    Quoting Hilly on 05 Oct 2018 10:12 PM
    I like points, 95% of all cars I've owned ran points, at least I could fix them when they played up, looking good Krash, not long now
    Hey thank's Hilly, the points I had in my Shovel same as a V8 chevy used. yeh not too long.
  • tussuck Posts: 1463
    Melbourne
    Performance Poster tussuck
    05 Oct 2018 10:22 PM
    yell out if yah want to sell the EFI?  I'm looking to fit EFI to my 86 FXR
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2226
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    06 Oct 2018 07:29 AM
    Quoting tussuck on 05 Oct 2018 10:22 PM
    yell out if yah want to sell the EFI?  I'm looking to fit EFI to my 86 FXR
    hey tussuck, I picked up heads from a forum member who was selling as he got heads from Hammer. this bike has always been a carb. these heads same as 04 up  XL or 07 up big twin, 03 up XB Buell, only reason late XL EFI heads need a special manifold to use a carb is the intake has been machined back to allow a throttle body to fit between the heads. XB Buell have throttle body down draught so are not between but above heads. so normal carb manifold not wide enough to reach the ports to seal uses different flang too, I was lucky Aron at Hammer gave me a used set as they were on back order. I know you can tune EFI perfect, but the carb light I want this bike as light as I can. but the iron barrels heavy.
    if you want to go EFI on yours could get an Aussie Autronic ecu they are good but I don't know how much, just friend uses them a lot with race boats & cars. cheaper than motec.
    I'm using the carb as had the carb I'm using on a twin cam 88" & jetting & tune was perfect on that & got good economy.
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2226
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    15 Oct 2018 12:44 PM
    HD Forums Australia - IMG_2487.JPG

    She is a runner!!
    Started up easy, three year old battery was standing for 6 months. it was on bike when I got it and the lady owner said it was two year old, I have not see this brand before don't know what type. was bought at Battery world in Queensland. motor 1450cc 10.5 comp, so good battery good tune out the box.
    it's turned out good I'm happy.


  • paulybronco Posts: 10323
    Forum Legend paulybronco
    15 Oct 2018 04:53 PM
    Nice result
3/5
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