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  • Ken in Cairns Posts: 340
    Cairns FNQ
    Stage 1 Poster Ken in Cairns
    14 Aug 2018 01:59 PM

    Hi everyone, thinking it’s time I did some more work on the bike.

    I want to tackle the suspension now, as that is where it is now lacking the most now.

     So after going back to nearly page one of the dyna forum pages and reading suspension threads on this and other forums till my eyes bled, I’m not sure where I am now.

     

    I am considering fitting longer wide glide tubes to lift the front end up and gain some ground clearance, with 13 inch shocks on the back so the rack and trail doesn’t change too much. Is a guy up this way who has done it and said it was a vast improvement clearance wise, do a lot of mountain road riding with tight twisty bits up this way.

    When I get home I want to see what sag I currently have in the front as I’m pretty sure it is more than the 25 ~ 30 mm that seems to be recommended, and see how the clearance goes when I reset it, and check the oil height, still thinking it will be low, but I might not drag my heels going through a normal roundabout at 50 clicks.

     

    For the forks I was either going to go with either a cartridge insert or single rate springs (Traxton ?) for my weight and either the gold valve or Ricor Intiminators, which are easier to fit and do not alter the std damper rod.

     

    However I think the cost for a cartridge will probably lead me down the single rate spring route for the time being.

     

    As to the rear shocks, this is where I got REALLY lost.

     

    I was originally just going to go IKON (front fork spring as well), but then came upon all the reports on the Ricor, Hagon Nitro and the Gazi units, unfortunately higher cost units (Wilber’s, Olin etc) are not really on the cards due to budget constraints, I might be able to stretch the budget on the rears if I don’t do the wide glide tubes. However if I go the longer front tube I sort of need to do both ends together so keep the same geometry.

     

    Ricor have a sale on at the moment, shocks and the Intiminators for just over 1250 delivered (without the extra 10% gouging tax now imposed on everything imported), and that is probably the best value at the moment, provided the shocks are as good as later reports make out, there early ones were prone to seal failure from what I have read. Probably have to keep the stock duel rate springs till I can get the single rate replacements, not ideal but should be some improvement on the stock front end.

     

    Was a guy on the forum custom building Olin units in the states, but his posts were form 2011 and 2012, and I haven’t seen any later ones, even on the US forums.

     

    I had looked at the progressive suspension units, but am put off with the reports (on here) of the quality not being as good as it once was. Sort of heard about mixed results with the YSS units too.

     

    So I guess I’m asking has anyone have a direct comparison of the Ricor and Hagon Nitros vs the Gazi and Ikon models, or recently fitted them. From what I gather there isn’t much between the Ricor and Hagon units, main difference is the way they operate and manual vs auto adjustment system.

    The Gazi ones seem like they would be OK, but not sure about the looks, but the ride height adjustment is a plus.

     

    So I’m leaning towards either Rico or the Hagon units, but as I run saddle bags I believe I can’t fit piggyback style shocks, though a remote reservoir might work, depending on where and how they are mounted.

     

    Sorry for the long post, but I can’t expect an answer if I don’t let you all know what I’m thinking, and how I got there.

     

    Cheers

    Ken

  • Odin Posts: 317
    South Australia
    Stage 1 Poster Odin
    14 Aug 2018 05:24 PM
    have a look at Nitron shocks from Suspensions R Us in Melbourne. I have them on my Street Glide and love 
  • chriso Posts: 2785
    south canberra
    Forum Legend chriso
    14 Aug 2018 06:39 PM
    First of all what’s the bike Ken?

    You are on the right track with the wideglide tubes, one of the best things I did with the fatbob.
    I put ricor intimidators in few years back as I was on a budget at the time. Vast improvement over stock, stopping a lot of dive but most noticeable was stability through the corners especially hitting bumps, just held its line.
    I have since gone to the Ohlins nix 22 cartrages, which are another level again but costly. If you go down this track you will need the wideglide tubes as they are made only for that length. Which as you would know is an extra 2 inches ( missus told me thats a must)

    For the back I also added another inch for clearance, 13 inch is perfect I think, mate has 14 and I don’t like way the bike sits.
    I changed to progressive 444s, fucked em off after 4 mths. Fucken shit. I then went with the ricors( again on budget) they are a mediocre shock, heaps better then stock and great for price. They stayed on for couple years. Now have Ohlins on the back. absolutly top of the line but once again very costly.
    Hope that helps mate.
    Oh yeah I might add that it’s hard to get anyone to bebuild the ricors if you do blow a seal or anything.
  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2490
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    14 Aug 2018 07:36 PM
    all good advice, just thought I would add, if you can add another stabiliser for the rubber mounts, that stops forward to rear movement, will help. there are a few around, just not sure what product names are. but Dyna needs them!good luck I would use Ohlins or race tech.
  • chriso Posts: 2785
    south canberra
    Forum Legend chriso
    14 Aug 2018 08:12 PM
    Quoting Krash Kinkade on 14 Aug 2018 07:36 PM
    all good advice, just thought I would add, if you can add another stabiliser for the rubber mounts, that stops forward to rear movement, will help. there are a few around, just not sure what product names are. but Dyna needs them!good luck I would use Ohlins or race tech.
    Yep I’ve always said the stabilisers were best upgrade I’ve done on the Dyna when it comes to stability and handling.
    Wouldn’t go without.
    I have sputhe, tru- trac is another. They all work the same 
  • Ken in Cairns Posts: 340
    Cairns FNQ
    Stage 1 Poster Ken in Cairns
    14 Aug 2018 09:46 PM
    Thanks for the replies.
    It,s a 2012 Fat Bob Chriso , and I have seen yor thread about the progressive shocks, one of the reasons I dismissed them from my list. Looks like the ricors are not as good as some make out either.

    Might have to look at the others mentioned or the Hagon units again.

    A true track or similar will also be considered.
     When I get better phone and internet service I will give suspension r us a call too.
    Cheers 
    Ken 
  • friday Posts: 95
    Stock Poster friday
    15 Aug 2018 06:19 AM
    Ive read repeatedly about Progressive popping the seals  . big name products should have a decent life span
  • imoo6170 Posts: 576
    Sydney
    Performance Poster imoo6170
    15 Aug 2018 07:16 AM
    Cannot add any re comparing shocks but I have used Ikons and found them to be very good. 

    I also use Fournales on my Springer and have used them on a Ultra. They are a bit dearer (like Ohlins) but every now and again a second hand set pops up on ebay - used Ohlins also occasionally pop up but not very often. Both are rebuild-able (just visit a good bike suspension shop) so that my be an option (depending on how long u are prepared to wait).
  • brash Posts: 636
    Performance Poster brash
    15 Aug 2018 08:10 AM

    Another happy Ohlins customer here.

    Nix 22 front and one off HD215's in 13.5 inch in the rear. Absolutely transformed my FXDLS. Wasn't cheap however now I have the setup to my liking I think it was money well spent.

    Howard at Motorcycle metal in the states is the guru at making a HD turn, his personality is blunt and direct but the service and advice/experience he has is unsurpassed.


  • Krash Kinkade Posts: 2490
    Motor Head Krash Kinkade
    15 Aug 2018 09:33 AM
    Quoting friday on 15 Aug 2018 06:19 AM
    Ive read repeatedly about Progressive popping the seals  . big name products should have a decent life span
    I been riding Harleys for ages, I had a box full of progressive shocks & fork springs, in old day's always though ok at start but get progressively worse. then got me Dyna twin cam set up by, Shock Treatment, out of Sydney & that's who have set up my old Sporty build, was best I've had on Dyna. had Race Tech springs & gold valving in forks & race tech custom set up shocks, but sporty will have race tech springs & gold valving in forks , set up to my weight and bikes weight, and Ohlins shocks 14.5" long set up by shock treatment. but still rebuilding bike. so can't say yet.
  • chriso Posts: 2785
    south canberra
    Forum Legend chriso
    15 Aug 2018 11:26 AM
    Quoting brash on 15 Aug 2018 08:10 AM

    Another happy Ohlins customer here.

    Nix 22 front and one off HD215's in 13.5 inch in the rear. Absolutely transformed my FXDLS. Wasn't cheap however now I have the setup to my liking I think it was money well spent.

    Howard at Motorcycle metal in the states is the guru at making a HD turn, his personality is blunt and direct but the service and advice/experience he has is unsurpassed.


    Yeah I forgot to mention I had some dealings with Howard as well. Blunt personality is being kind. He’s a pig.
    I ditched hill half way through my dealings.
    If you can put up with him though he is the best from all accounts
  • DJP_120ci Posts: 155
    Stock Poster DJP_120ci
    15 Aug 2018 03:23 PM
    HD Forums Australia - IMG_4834.jpg

    Another happy customer with the ohlins, I can't recommend them enough, I would suggest saving the money a little longer and going this way you will not regret it. 
    I also have the ohlins cartridge kit on order and will be putting them in a set of DLC coated fork tubes. Not cheap by any means but by all accounts well worth the money. 

    "I have since gone to the Ohlins nix 22 cartrages, which are another level again but costly. If you go down this track you will need the wideglide tubes as they are made only for that length. Which as you would know is an extra 2 inches ( missus told me thats a must)

    Chriso, just to set the record straight this is no longer the case, Ohlins make kits for both the standard length and the wide glide tubes now. 

    Cheers.

  • chriso Posts: 2785
    south canberra
    Forum Legend chriso
    15 Aug 2018 05:00 PM
    Quoting DJP_120ci on 15 Aug 2018 03:23 PM
    HD Forums Australia - IMG_4834.jpg

    Another happy customer with the ohlins, I can't recommend them enough, I would suggest saving the money a little longer and going this way you will not regret it. 
    I also have the ohlins cartridge kit on order and will be putting them in a set of DLC coated fork tubes. Not cheap by any means but by all accounts well worth the money. 

    "I have since gone to the Ohlins nix 22 cartrages, which are another level again but costly. If you go down this track you will need the wideglide tubes as they are made only for that length. Which as you would know is an extra 2 inches ( missus told me thats a must)

    Chriso, just to set the record straight this is no longer the case, Ohlins make kits for both the standard length and the wide glide tubes now. 

    Cheers.

    Well that’s good news, cheers 
  • R2D2 Posts: 159
    Stock Poster R2D2
    15 Aug 2018 06:14 PM
    Quoting brash on 15 Aug 2018 08:10 AM

    Another happy Ohlins customer here.

    Nix 22 front and one off HD215's in 13.5 inch in the rear. Absolutely transformed my FXDLS. Wasn't cheap however now I have the setup to my liking I think it was money well spent.

    Howard at Motorcycle metal in the states is the guru at making a HD turn, his personality is blunt and direct but the service and advice/experience he has is unsurpassed.


    Howard is a great bloke,no BS kinda guy , known and traded with him for years and get on real well with him, he just doesn't tolerate fuckwits well or at all.
  • chriso Posts: 2785
    south canberra
    Forum Legend chriso
    15 Aug 2018 08:20 PM
    Not a chance he’d get on with you if that’s the case
  • Ken in Cairns Posts: 340
    Cairns FNQ
    Stage 1 Poster Ken in Cairns
    17 Aug 2018 01:59 PM
    Thanks for the replies everyone.
    I know suspension can be a bit subjective.
    I think I need to re-evaluate how to achieve the changes if I want to go the more expensive cartridge and Olin route, and do it incrementally to fund it.
    So I have to pick the front or rear to do first.

    The rear is defiantly the poorer of the two ends, I guess can I go for the longer planned 13 inch shock without upsetting the rake/trail too much and probably will not notice the difference, especially as the handling should change a lot for the better with the rear shocks upgraded.

    Set the pre-load correctly on the front and maybe do an oil change with 7.5 weight Belray, and probably fit a gold valve assembly while they are apart , the lower paint is peeling off down the bottom, so want to either pain them or powder coat them, as it looks bloody awful. It should help a little, as the pre-load isn't correct now I'm pretty sure.

    Then get the longer fork tubes (are Rollies best place to get them ?) installed, if I cant do it this time around, which I don't think I can stretch too.
    Question do you need to change the internals, damper rod etc. when fitting the wide glide tubes ?

    I think I can use the current Fat Bob Springs if I make longer spaces to get the pre-load, not Ideal probably as you really want as long as a spring as you can get, in the US forums there was a lot of debate over what length Traxton spring to get.

    Depending on the cost of the cartridge inserts, I may end up running the springs for some time, at least a year, so it may be worth doing a single rate spring change over and gold valves (if not fitted already) as the single rate springs are not that expensive.

    And while it may not be the bee’s knees, it should be a pretty big step up for the front end, and may be all I actually need, it isn’t a Moto GP bike, even though I try and ride it like one, or so I’m told :)

    I’ll send Howard an email and see what he has to say, I can be pretty direct too, he is probably a very busy guy and I can appreciate that.

    I never got a chance to make any phone calls to the outside world when we were in Port yesterday, Fuel Bunkers, Sludge Truck, Food Stores, Spare Parts, and a lot of plate coolers to strip and clean.

    But I would like to escape from here with some sort of plan.
    Cheers
    Ken

  • Ken in Cairns Posts: 340
    Cairns FNQ
    Stage 1 Poster Ken in Cairns
    17 Aug 2018 02:58 PM
    Thanks Hilly.
    I'll have a look at OEM and E-Bay as well.
    Just found these, Zodiac brand for $ 279, I'm guessing each  ?
    https://www.mcas.com.au/shop/item/zodiac-fork-tubes-04
    Where is the best place for the gold valves ?

    Cheers
    Ken
  • Benno Posts: 171
    Brisbane Qld
    Stock Poster Benno
    17 Aug 2018 03:48 PM
    Hilly's not rambling Ken, I put the single rate springs and race tech gold valves in recently, tried every one of the springs, different weight oil, 3 weeks friggin around with all the different scenarios. The guys here put me onto an old thread from Hilly, followed the suggestions to the letter, like riding a different bike now. I also put a set of Ohlin STX36 rear shocks @ 13" on the back a couple of weeks earlier, think I got them for $1200 fitted. The single rate springs and gold valves cost about $500, you will be surprised at the difference once you get it set.
    Cheers Benno.

  • Ken in Cairns Posts: 340
    Cairns FNQ
    Stage 1 Poster Ken in Cairns
    17 Aug 2018 04:04 PM
    No Hilly not rambling :)
    OK Blue valves not Gold, check.
    10 weight oil when fitted. Check.

    I have read that thread to Benno, it was one of the reasons I considered the Ricor units, just bung em in, but the Blue/Gold ones are probably better once tuned.

    The biggest pain in the buts NO drain plug in the fork legs, thought of fitting some when I have em apart, anyone done it ?

    See what Howard says cost wise, I just emailed him about the Olin units.

    Just got to juggle cash vs performance, and how to do it over time.

    I just can't see me having the cash to do the whole front end in one go, even if I can get the tubes for 400, add springs, the now Blue valve, overhaul kit, and I'm guessing new brake lines as well..... be getting up there.

    The wide glide spring is 380 mm, and the mine is 350 if I remember what I read a few hundred posts ago about the single rate springs from Traxion, I used the race tech calculator Hilly and got the 1.2 KG spring recommended, I'm no feather weight 120 KG, but do you think that may be a bit heavy ? I did read were you say the calculators tend to recommend heavier springs more suited to the track, so thought about the 1 Kg springs, I defiantly think the 0.9 ones will be too light.

    So my shorter springs will g in the longer tubes, but I don't think I can do the longer 380 mm ones into my std tubes and get the pre-load right, and getting the caps on :(

    As always thanks for the replies, it is helping.

    I'll have to have a beer with you one day Hilly, your only just down the road a bit :)

    Cheers
    Ken

  • Baloffski Posts: 1629
    Victoria
    Motor Head Baloffski
    17 Aug 2018 05:45 PM
    Someone say "Beer"?
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