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CVO 110 twin cams, running hot

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  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    4 years ago
    Quoting Nutty on 28 Apr 2019 05:35 AMedited: 28 Apr 2019 05:41 AM

    The OP (Ratbob) posted that the bikes had stock headers and slip-ons. Anyone with a heat issues on a Twinkie needs to take three initial steps.

    1) Mid-body heat deflectors on Tourers ($20 on eBay)
    2) Get rid of the cats (decat or new header)
    3) new tune

    Just these three mods will make an incredible difference, the cats make a lot of heat in themselves and also stop heat escaping out the pipes. Fattening up the idle fuel settings helps a fair bit too. 

    Hey Nutty
    Yeah I’ve seen those ball protectors, not sure how effective they are when idling at the lights.
    I have a decatted header. Just removing the cat on a Dyna header IMO doesn’t work, you end up with a two into one untuned tub back into two pipes and the engine didn’t seem to run any cooler, my right foot felt better though.
    I tried that system and found it dulled performance, no I don’t have a Dyno chart, it just felt that way. 
    I then cut the pipe open, well Redline exhaust did and welded in a divider plate to make it a “true dual” system. I then had it ceramic coated inside and out. Cost $600. This felt better, performance with three different slip on mufflers sets was great.  Best was the SE slip ons. I’ve offered this header system up for sale a few times for $200 but no takers. 
    As for tune, yeah, gotta agree, I’m sure Lushy will deliver the goods but I gotta get the bike where I want it before I bother him, getting close. Cheers
  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    4 years ago
    Quoting Hoodeng on 28 Apr 2019 12:07 AMedited: 28 Apr 2019 12:11 AM

    Yes my mistake mate ,i was quoting the S&S585 and did not think of the SE offering [probably because the S&S are as common as arseholes]!
    Yes ,installing the SE585 with +4° gear would work pretty well in a stock 110 ,it will definitely give the motor greater range of torque.
    The 110 head flows well after .500"lift and does not plateau or stall at .600"+ lift so you can go with more lift with confidence,one of the reasons they love bigger valves and port work.
    The stock head plateaus in flow a lot earlier.
    The SE performance offerings change with time and difference between an early stage 4 kit and a late kit have no comparison or interchangeability but are called the same thing, this is Harley's prerogative,they own the product.
    The MR103 exhaust in the book is 50/22 so it looks like a misprint in what you saw.
    Even if you leave the motor dead stock ,the heat issue and overall performance will be rectified with a visit to old mate.

    Cheers.

    Cheers Hoody, thanks for the advice re lift.
    Sometimes I think I should just get "old mate" to tune the bike but as she's hit 10 years old I figure it can't hurt to take a look indise and while it's open etc.
    Weird, I got the cam timings off the S&S web page, guess we all make typos.


    Screenshot_2019-04-29 Cam Specs Overview S S Cycle(1).png
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    4 years ago
    Dunno if it’s a misprint or not but there are a few s&s cams with unusual exhaust specs but they seem to usually work well if added to the right combination of parts. Have a look at the specs on their 635ho cam. It’s very unusual 
  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    4 years ago
    Quoting fatbat on 29 Apr 2019 02:44 AM

    Dunno if it’s a misprint or not but there are a few s&s cams with unusual exhaust specs but they seem to usually work well if added to the right combination of parts. Have a look at the specs on their 635ho cam. It’s very unusual 

    Yeah mate, not noticed that before, it's a bit similar to the SE259e up to the exhaust closing, it sure has a swag of lift and duration too, bet it has a nice idle.
    259e     19     47     58     12
    635ho   19.5  43.5  58.5  37.5
  • Hoodeng
    Hoodeng
    4 years ago
    No ,it is 50°/22° that is a misprint.
    I should clear up what i said about the springs being ok to .600: lift . What i mean is the seat pressure generated for that max lift will work for cams in that design area.
    So, bind height is 1.090" + .600" +.060" =1.750" that spring height makes 190lb on the seat with sound oem springs, seat pressures under this with the cams that fall in this area will not be adequate .If you went to a .625" clearance the seat pressure drops to 180lb this is marginal for effective valve control.
    All of this is only any good if you measure what you have in the first place.
    Over years i have had guys argue with me about how they installed new springs and then bent pushrods or the engine lay down with RPM ,you ask these guys what dimensions were used on assembly and all they can insist on is the springs were new,,, no clue as to how dimensions were effecting their assembly.

    Cheers.

  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    4 years ago
    Quoting Hoodeng on 29 Apr 2019 03:28 AM

    No ,it is 50°/22° that is a misprint.
    I should clear up what i said about the springs being ok to .600: lift . What i mean is the seat pressure generated for that max lift will work for cams in that design area.
    So, bind height is 1.090" + .600" +.060" =1.750" that spring height makes 190lb on the seat with sound oem springs, seat pressures under this with the cams that fall in this area will not be adequate .If you went to a .625" clearance the seat pressure drops to 180lb this is marginal for effective valve control.
    All of this is only any good if you measure what you have in the first place.
    Over years i have had guys argue with me about how they installed new springs and then bent pushrods or the engine lay down with RPM ,you ask these guys what dimensions were used on assembly and all they can insist on is the springs were new,,, no clue as to how dimensions were effecting their assembly.

    Cheers.

    Hi Hoody, thanks for the clarification. Difficult subject for us novices but I think I get it. Cheers
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    Big valves in these 110's, the stock dual springs do ok, my cams are 590 lift and the engine stays sane at 6200, I wouldn't ride at that for long but if you don't get it there you can't tune it there, dyno or street.
  • taztiger4
    taztiger4
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 22 Apr 2019 10:33 AM

    What state/city are you in? We can try and find you a good one. Go with the tuner they want to use.

    Quoting taztiger4 on 22 Apr 2019 10:42 AM

    Melbourne

    cheers

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 22 Apr 2019 10:51 AM

    Eastern Big Twin in Pakenham are a sponsor, they tune with PowerVision, you would be looking at about $200 for the licence and about $600 for the tune, don't quote me on that but that's about the going rate, if you want to go a bit out of your way Lushy is in Victor Harbour, he does a top notch job.

    Finally got around to getting EBT to tune my stock CVO FatBob with SE slip ons & decided to go with the Power Vision Licence Key option 

    I picked it up today & quickly rode the 40ks back to work.

    I am loathe to say its a different bike but fuck me its a different bike !!

    Not making huge HP, but torque is really strong & runs waaayyy cooler

    Ended up max 91hp @5350 & 114 nm @ 3190

    Money very well spent , learnt a lot in a short time from Brian & what a true gentleman & knowledgeable bloke Brian is.

    Thanks for the recommendation


  • Ratbob
    Ratbob
    4 years ago
    Thanks for the info Taztiger.
    It’s good to know that just getting a decent tune can help cool these old 110’s. 

  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    You are now converted aye, tuned they just run better everywhere, numbers aside what matters is how well they respond, smoother, crisper, it's just a better mousetrap.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    The numbers you got are pretty much the norm for the 110 with 255's tuned, just a bit of trivia I put Andrews 32's in my 110 and got the local shop to tune it, numbers were less than stellar with SE mufflers but initially I was pretty happy with it, then I started playing around with mufflers and exhaust configurations, it woke right up and became a different beast altogether, stock they will take more cam than maths alone would suggest, Herko and Dewy did a few different cams in these over in the states when they first started making the 110's, you don't ride a dyno sheet.
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