Freedom of information vs national security

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  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Its interesting the fact that AFP have raided ABC with a very free ranging warrant seeking information regarding a story it ran 2yrs ago The ABC’s reporting  included explosive details about a number of Defence Force incidents in Afghanistan during the war, including some cases that were being investigated as unlawful killings.
    Some of the documents indicated “a growing sense of unease at the highest levels of Defence about the culture of Australia’s special forces”, the report said.
    Should the AFP be seeking who leaked the information to ABC or should the ABC be able to with hold its practice of protecting its source. Seems a little like our own Wikileaks pantomime about to happen
  • John.R
    John.R
    4 years ago
    Not sure what these dip shit journos think.
    They know they're publishing classified material, ofcourse it's going to raise eyebrows. This shit gets investigated all the time, its not just limited to journos.  The case of the defence grad that uploaded documents to 4chan comes to mind.

    That was just 1 low level bloke posting info to a cesspool of an internet site, let alone getting national media attention.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    Classified just means they don't want you to know, journos job is to find out why, you shut them down completely it's the thin edge of the wedge I reckon.
  • Baloffski
    Baloffski
    4 years ago
    I know an Army Specialist who was in Afghanistan a number of times.
    Many occurrences did happen,  evidently, if they finger any involved in something such as what is going to be investigated.  
    Many of the Specialists have PTSD, this investigation is going to cause the guys a lot of stress and angst for following orders.
    Not an Army dude but friends were, are...These guys aren't going to yabber to AFP.
    It was a many years ago, and both sides were not "playing fucken Cricket". 

  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    Quoting Baloffski on 05 Jun 2019 06:42 AM

    I know an Army Specialist who was in Afghanistan a number of times.
    Many occurrences did happen,  evidently, if they finger any involved in something such as what is going to be investigated.  
    Many of the Specialists have PTSD, this investigation is going to cause the guys a lot of stress and angst for following orders.
    Not an Army dude but friends were, are...These guys aren't going to yabber to AFP.
    It was a many years ago, and both sides were not "playing fucken Cricket". 

    Mate I'm all for give as good as you get, stand on the neck and blow off the head, no sweat with me, let's not swing this into something it isn't,  most of my Townsville mates are ex military.
    Since it's been brought up, if you send men to fight, let them fight as they must to win, government just needs to say to the world if you hide behind someone and shoot at our boys then they will shoot through them to get to you, nothing to hide then.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Baloffski on 05 Jun 2019 06:42 AM

    I know an Army Specialist who was in Afghanistan a number of times.
    Many occurrences did happen,  evidently, if they finger any involved in something such as what is going to be investigated.  
    Many of the Specialists have PTSD, this investigation is going to cause the guys a lot of stress and angst for following orders.
    Not an Army dude but friends were, are...These guys aren't going to yabber to AFP.
    It was a many years ago, and both sides were not "playing fucken Cricket". 

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 05 Jun 2019 06:59 AM

    Mate I'm all for give as good as you get, stand on the neck and blow off the head, no sweat with me, let's not swing this into something it isn't,  most of my Townsville mates are ex military.

    Since it's been brought up, if you send men to fight, let them fight as they must to win, government just needs to say to the world if you hide behind someone and shoot at our boys then they will shoot through them to get to you, nothing to hide then.

    Have to agree Hilly. Its sad that pollies send our lads to war then scrutinize every aspect from the holy air of Canberra. Still does not answer the original question though....
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Baloffski on 05 Jun 2019 06:42 AM

    I know an Army Specialist who was in Afghanistan a number of times.
    Many occurrences did happen,  evidently, if they finger any involved in something such as what is going to be investigated.  
    Many of the Specialists have PTSD, this investigation is going to cause the guys a lot of stress and angst for following orders.
    Not an Army dude but friends were, are...These guys aren't going to yabber to AFP.
    It was a many years ago, and both sides were not "playing fucken Cricket". 

    Hey no issue about the fact that the boys aint going to talk but its about finding that elusive thing called the truth, a sadly lacking thing today
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    Quoting Baloffski on 05 Jun 2019 06:42 AM

    I know an Army Specialist who was in Afghanistan a number of times.
    Many occurrences did happen,  evidently, if they finger any involved in something such as what is going to be investigated.  
    Many of the Specialists have PTSD, this investigation is going to cause the guys a lot of stress and angst for following orders.
    Not an Army dude but friends were, are...These guys aren't going to yabber to AFP.
    It was a many years ago, and both sides were not "playing fucken Cricket". 

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 05 Jun 2019 06:59 AM

    Mate I'm all for give as good as you get, stand on the neck and blow off the head, no sweat with me, let's not swing this into something it isn't,  most of my Townsville mates are ex military.

    Since it's been brought up, if you send men to fight, let them fight as they must to win, government just needs to say to the world if you hide behind someone and shoot at our boys then they will shoot through them to get to you, nothing to hide then.

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Jun 2019 07:23 AM

    Have to agree Hilly. Its sad that pollies send our lads to war then scrutinize every aspect from the holy air of Canberra. Still does not answer the original question though....

    My first post is how I see the original question, I see it more as big brother putting down dissent, if some idiot gets info that is current activity and broadcasting it would compromise personal and put them in harm's way then yep the AFP should be on it but if it's old hat or shady policy that is under the scope then protect the source.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 05 Jun 2019 06:59 AM

    Mate I'm all for give as good as you get, stand on the neck and blow off the head, no sweat with me, let's not swing this into something it isn't,  most of my Townsville mates are ex military.

    Since it's been brought up, if you send men to fight, let them fight as they must to win, government just needs to say to the world if you hide behind someone and shoot at our boys then they will shoot through them to get to you, nothing to hide then.

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Jun 2019 07:23 AM

    Have to agree Hilly. Its sad that pollies send our lads to war then scrutinize every aspect from the holy air of Canberra. Still does not answer the original question though....

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 05 Jun 2019 08:54 AM

    My first post is how I see the original question, I see it more as big brother putting down dissent, if some idiot gets info that is current activity and broadcasting it would compromise personal and put them in harm's way then yep the AFP should be on it but if it's old hat or shady policy that is under the scope then protect the source.

    Think we used to call that common sence in the past......no idea what the new political fully inclusive non discriminatory LGBT word is
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Jun 2019 07:23 AM

    Have to agree Hilly. Its sad that pollies send our lads to war then scrutinize every aspect from the holy air of Canberra. Still does not answer the original question though....

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 05 Jun 2019 08:54 AM

    My first post is how I see the original question, I see it more as big brother putting down dissent, if some idiot gets info that is current activity and broadcasting it would compromise personal and put them in harm's way then yep the AFP should be on it but if it's old hat or shady policy that is under the scope then protect the source.

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Jun 2019 09:14 AM

    Think we used to call that common sence in the past......no idea what the new political fully inclusive non discriminatory LGBT word is

    Me either, you find that island yet?
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 05 Jun 2019 08:54 AM

    My first post is how I see the original question, I see it more as big brother putting down dissent, if some idiot gets info that is current activity and broadcasting it would compromise personal and put them in harm's way then yep the AFP should be on it but if it's old hat or shady policy that is under the scope then protect the source.

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Jun 2019 09:14 AM

    Think we used to call that common sence in the past......no idea what the new political fully inclusive non discriminatory LGBT word is

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 05 Jun 2019 09:17 AM

    Me either, you find that island yet?

    Getting desperate now Hilly believe me, the older i get the less tolerant i become!
  • Wideglider
    Wideglider
    4 years ago
    Just heard the warrant allows the AFP to not just access electronic documents, but allows them to 'copy, cut or alter' any documents - WTF?!
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Wideglider on 05 Jun 2019 10:35 AM

    Just heard the warrant allows the AFP to not just access electronic documents, but allows them to 'copy, cut or alter' any documents - WTF?!

    You missed the word "delete" as well!
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Mr Lyons has revealed details of the warrant’s broad scope, which seeks: “Handwritten/digital notes, diary/ies, correspondence — internal, external, emails & other electronic forms of messaging, minutes, reports, briefing documents, assessments, graphics, sketches, photographs or imagery/vision — drafts & final, story pitch planning logs, broadcast and online schedules, raw or unedited footage in its entirety, journalist’s piece to camera, scripts drafts and finals including voiceovers, story boards/plans, status updates, website content, documents classified as ‘secret’ together with any manual, instruction, password or other thing that assists to gain access to or interpret or decode any of the above things.”
    Mr Lyons said the warrant also allows the AFP to “add, copy, delete or alter” material on ABC computers.
  • Wideglider
    Wideglider
    4 years ago
    Quoting Wideglider on 05 Jun 2019 10:35 AM

    Just heard the warrant allows the AFP to not just access electronic documents, but allows them to 'copy, cut or alter' any documents - WTF?!

    Quoting paulybronco on 05 Jun 2019 11:12 AM

    You missed the word "delete" as well!

    Ok, I said 'cut' - they said 'delete'.
  • Wideglider
    Wideglider
    4 years ago
    Ánd the power to "add" to a document - it's outta control!
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    A brave new world
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 05 Jun 2019 12:13 PM

    A brave new world

    Who really knows what the truth is today
  • fatbat
    fatbat
    4 years ago
    Quoting John.R on 05 Jun 2019 05:46 AM

    Not sure what these dip shit journos think.

    They know they're publishing classified material, ofcourse it's going to raise eyebrows. This shit gets investigated all the time, its not just limited to journos.  The case of the defence grad that uploaded documents to 4chan comes to mind.

    That was just 1 low level bloke posting info to a cesspool of an internet site, let alone getting national media attention.

    Agree with your comments and I'll add some of my thoughts...

    "Freedom of information" doesn't exist when there are specific laws and offences prescribed around releasing, using and/or publishing the said "information". 

    Media play an important role in communicating issues of public interest but nobody, including journalists, are above the law.  It doesn't matter what the public interest issue is.  And the ABC is ignorant to think it can determine what public interest is and then do whatever it likes without consequence.

    If the head of our defence force makes a complaint about the leaking of secret information which is alleged to be an offence, I'd expect police to investigate it.  To not investigate it would be a bigger concern.   Let the police do their job and if sufficient evidence of an offence is obtained, let the courts do their job.

    The ABC is an ongoing embarrassment.  The managing director's response to the police investigation was, "The ABC stands by its journalists, will protect its sources and continue to report without fear or favour on national security and intelligence issues when there is a clear public interest".

    The ABC is a tax-payer funded government broadcaster which clearly has no regard for our laws. It is so left-biased and arrogant that it seems to believe that (its views on) public interest takes precedence over the law.  Journalists have no exemption for the offences under investigation - even their editorial director and fuckwit presenter of Media Watch acknowledged this.  Its conduct during and after the search warrant was pathetic.  The alleged leak and recipient of the information knew what they were doing.  The ABC has publicly criticised police for doing their job.  They filmed and tweeted the search warrant.  They mocked and questioned certain words and powers provided in the search warrant which are taken verbatim from the Crimes Act - without including full context of the words (or simply lacking an understanding).  These words have been paraphrased in some posts above.  And they tell us they will continue to do it (obtain and publish secret information) without fear.

    Our tax is funding the ABC and will now be funding its lawyers and response to the police investigation.

    On top of everything else the ABC has done, heads should roll and hopefully will.  Given the government has just started its new term, there is potential for consequences but I doubt there is the spine for it.

  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    Sounds more anti aunty than fact.
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