will a cam swap work for me??

Topics

will a cam swap work for me??

cdvreede
4 years ago

tapping into the collective brainpower. Have a 2011 FXDC - minimal work, just air cleaner, two-in-one Supertrapp and a TTS tuner. Runs nice - enough power as long as I rev it quite high. When running in 6th at lets say 80 km/h however its completely gutless - no rev counter so don't know revs - but I will need to drop 2 gears to get on the power or open it up and wait till it hits 100 or so before power starts to build.
I know - best option would be to increase compression and more cubes - but want to keep the ride-ability as I live in Sydney where I need to navigate the clogged roads.

Question now - would a cam help - one optimized for torque?? If so, which one would you recommend??

let me know plse

thnx

Dennis

Daggs
4 years ago

80k is pretty low for 6th gear, yes, you are going to have to drop it back 2 or more likely 3 gears from there if you want it to come alive. Cams set at correct compression for them will help but you'll still have to drop down gears to get her to go

Benno
4 years ago

As per Daggs comment, I don’t go near 6th unless I am @100 or over. I have a a tach and in 5th @100km am just a tad over 2500rpm, at 80km I’m am in 4th, I will say I have geared my bike up for open roads, maybe consider changing your rear sprocket before engine mods.

Ken in Cairns
4 years ago

Before I changed to a slightly small rear tire diameter, as the Fatbob stock is an odd size, at 180 / 70 and the new one is a 180/60 Battle Cruise I had the same gearing as Benno, 6th was only really usable at around 105 to 110.
80 was 5th the and around town 3rd and 4 th.
The slight reduction in ratio has moved the revs up a few 100 rpms and I can now do 100 in 6th at about 2300 without the engine lugging on the flat.

The twin cams need the revs kept up a little bit, they do not like being lugged. Use the gearbox as needed, it still sounds like I could be in a higher gear at 2300 to 2400 around town as the engine noise is deceiving.
Maybe see if you can fit a bar mounted tacho unit.

I have Andrews 57 cams, big sucker air cleaner and the same 2:1 supertrapp exhaust running all the supplied discs and an open cap.
Starts pulling at 2100 and very punchy after 2300 all the way to about 5 grand. Peak torque was about 4500 or so from memory.

There are a few cams similar to mine, from Screaming Eagle and the S& S M103 cam I was going to fit which is similar to the Andrews 57.
I went the Andrews because I got a good deal on a near new set.

The cam profile is nearly the same as the stock cams, just the power and torque lines are lifted.
So come on around the same revs but you get more performance. On my fairly conservative tune I ended up with 88 hp and 87 ft/lb from memory, was hoping for a little more, but it wasn't tuned to get big numbers, but rather to get to reasonable numbers quickly, run cool and reliably.
It does me at the moment as I run out of lean angle before power going up the range roads up here. May do a 107 or 110 in it one day, but doing the suspension next to lift the bike up about an inch and a half, that should help ;)

I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable folks will give you some cams to consider.

Good luck as cam selection can be a bit if a mind melting experience, work out what you want the bike to do and how you are wanting to ride it is the key.
Going by what you initially posted some mild to mid range bolt in cams should do fine, bit more power and torque, but very rideable around town.
Change the lifters to some decent s S&S or Fueling ones while your in there, as well as the cam bearings, also check the chain tensioner pads, esspessially the inner one.

Cheers
Ken

Grease Monkey
4 years ago

Dennis as the fella's have said you need the right gear for the speed you are doing, surely you can feel that it's unhappy?
Having said that an Andrews 48 works great in a 96", needs tuning to get the most from the swap though, the se255 will also work but the 48 is better, opinions will vary and that's just mine.

Ken in Cairns
4 years ago

O I missed it was a 96 not a 103.
So some of what I posted isn't 100 percent accurate re my cams and engine.
But using the correct gear and thinking about what you want from the bike still is valid.

I would see how much a bar mounted tacho unit costs, might be a good investment for you.

Smokey61
4 years ago

Quoting Benno on 29 Oct 2019 08:52 AMedited: 29 Oct 2019 08:59 AM
As per Daggs comment, I don’t go near 6th unless I am @100 or over. I have a a tach and in 5th @100km am just a tad over 2500rpm, at 80km I’m am in 4th, I will say I have geared my bike up for open roads, maybe consider changing your rear sprocket before engine mods.

On stock gearing on the 103 Widey, I use 4th around town in 60k zones, 5th in 80k zones and 6th once I hit the highway at 100k.

Same in the Commy VE V8 manual, strangely enough.

In the early 80's I was one of the people who thought the update from 4 to 5 gears was too many...

Birtyyy
4 years ago

I would definitely look at changing rear and/or front drive sprockets before opening up the engine. There's a great thread with lots of info here. Can get improvements of up to 13% more torque www.HDFORUMS.com
But I don't think anyone should be in 6th gear at 80kms no matter what bike/cam/gearing you have.

Lushy
4 years ago

Grab a 70 tooth rear pulley from a US bike. It will fit with your belt.Leave sixth alone until at least 105-110 , as described above. With your current gearing and a 6500 rev limit, the bike will do just short of 150km/h in THIRD. That will give you an idea what rpm is going on. Cam advice is like Oil advice :-) ten guys in the room, ten opinions.

Daggs
4 years ago

Exactly Lushy, just for knowledge I tested mine and it hits the limiter in 1st at 85, 125 in 2nd, 170 in 3rd didn't try 4th-6th ha ha. As much torque as mine has I still kick it down a couple of gears if I really feel the need for some swift acceleration.
Don't be scared to let them rev a bit !

Grease Monkey
4 years ago

Lushy is right about opinions on cams but here is my reasoning for your 96"

For what it's worth I did the pulley swap on my 06 Dyna, a 70 on the back to start with, then a few years down the track a 30 on the front, makes a difference for sure.
Stock cams are emissions orientated, not for me but each to his own.

cdvreede
4 years ago

Quoting Grease Monkey on 30 Oct 2019 09:30 AM
Lushy is right about opinions on cams but here is my reasoning for your 96"

For what it's worth I did the pulley swap on my 06 Dyna, a 70 on the back to start with, then a few years down the track a 30 on the front, makes a difference for sure.
Stock cams are emissions orientated, not for me but each to his own.

no overlap and very low lift - surprised it even runs that well with that timing. Does explain me getting 20 kays/liter fuel economy.
I'm still amazed how well the TC96 revs - but I really like low revs and torque. My 96 FXD EVO (should have never got rid of it) certainly didn't rev that well but with an EV27, cometic and a mikuni it had more low-end torque than the TC.

What's the noise level like with the Andrews??

thnx

cdvreede
4 years ago

Quoting Ken in Cairns on 29 Oct 2019 10:00 AMedited: 31 Oct 2019 11:51 AM
Before I changed to a slightly small rear tire diameter, as the Fatbob stock is an odd size, at 180 / 70 and the new one is a 180/60 Battle Cruise I had the same gearing as Benno, 6th was only really usable at around 105 to 110.
80 was 5th the and around town 3rd and 4 th.
The slight reduction in ratio has moved the revs up a few 100 rpms and I can now do 100 in 6th at about 2300 without the engine lugging on the flat.

The twin cams need the revs kept up a little bit, they do not like being lugged. Use the gearbox as needed, it still sounds like I could be in a higher gear at 2300 to 2400 around town as the engine noise is deceiving.
Maybe see if you can fit a bar mounted tacho unit.

I have Andrews 57 cams, big sucker air cleaner and the same 2:1 supertrapp exhaust running all the supplied discs and an open cap.
Starts pulling at 2100 and very punchy after 2300 all the way to about 5 grand. Peak torque was about 4500 or so from memory.

There are a few cams similar to mine, from Screaming Eagle and the S& S M103 cam I was going to fit which is similar to the Andrews 57.
I went the Andrews because I got a good deal on a near new set.

The cam profile is nearly the same as the stock cams, just the power and torque lines are lifted.
So come on around the same revs but you get more performance. On my fairly conservative tune I ended up with 88 hp and 87 ft/lb from memory, was hoping for a little more, but it wasn't tuned to get big numbers, but rather to get to reasonable numbers quickly, run cool and reliably.
It does me at the moment as I run out of lean angle before power going up the range roads up here. May do a 107 or 110 in it one day, but doing the suspension next to lift the bike up about an inch and a half, that should help ;)

I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable folks will give you some cams to consider.

Good luck as cam selection can be a bit if a mind melting experience, work out what you want the bike to do and how you are wanting to ride it is the key.
Going by what you initially posted some mild to mid range bolt in cams should do fine, bit more power and torque, but very rideable around town.
Change the lifters to some decent s S&S or Fueling ones while your in there, as well as the cam bearings, also check the chain tensioner pads, esspessially the inner one.

Cheers
Ken

tried the open end cap on the SuperTrapp - makes things worse low-end torque wise, better sound wise ;-)
Maybe I just need to get higher in the rev range - or get a nice long stroke shovel or something

Ken in Cairns
4 years ago

Mine was Very quite with the closed cap, but even with all the discs fitted a little restricted.
It went ok but took longer to spool up and get there. You get zip under about 2250 to 2300 as that's were they start to come on song.
My cams are pretty mild, so no worse noise wise than stock. However I fitted home made rocker stoppers and shimed the rockers when I did the cam job, as I used the same pushrods to save cost and reduce valve train weight, and eliminate a potential failure point on the adjustable ones.

Daggs
4 years ago

I've never heard of any actual issues with adjustables, I've done a lot of trouble free k's with them in my own bike and I also like using them to give some extra pre-load on the lifters. If the base circle of the cam allows it standard pushrods would be all good to use again for sure

Ken in Cairns
4 years ago

Yeah I know lots of guys have no issue with the quickie push rods, but some do have failures too. I just didn't want to go that route for the reasons I listed earlier. I live in FNQ, and head off into the middle of nowhere, and it was one failure mode I could eliminate and save cost on doing the cam job.
Same reason I machined up the cam bearing tooling, cost me nothing, and did the job just like a bought one.

Grease Monkey
4 years ago

I've been using adjustable pushrods without issue since I built my first 179HP in 1982.
Have heard of lock nuts splitting on the tapered SE pushrods some time back, I was fitting them to bikes at that time and never had a problem, they are all still out there running around and trust me if there was a problem I would hear about it quick smart.
I truly believe most if not all problems with them stem from the bloke holding the spanner and not some inherent design fault.
Still I understand the KISS principal and it certainly removes any chance of them causing an issue if they are not in there.

Topics

will a cam swap work for me??

will a cam swap work for me??

cdvreede

Daggs

Benno

Ken in Cairns

Grease Monkey

Ken in Cairns

Smokey61

Birtyyy

Lushy

Daggs

Grease Monkey

cdvreede

cdvreede

Ken in Cairns

Daggs

Ken in Cairns

Grease Monkey