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New Build 120R

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  • Phatty
    Phatty
    4 years ago
    I'm thinking of getting another Fatboy taking the motor out and installing a SE 120R.
    Mate in the states says he knows where there's 2 of them New. Think I'll have to convert to chain drive as the belt doesn't last long from what I've read.
    i'm thinking a Barnett Scorpion Complete Clutch and Basket, Good enought or something better ?
    Will the standard box take it.
  • Phatty
    Phatty
    4 years ago
    Quoting FONTANA302 on 11 Dec 2019 10:31 AM

    Bandit Sportsman holds my 148hp/144 tq no problems - 120R motor:

    Standard box & belt no problem.

    Look in following thread. 

    https://www.hdforums.com.au/Thread/204981/78/

    Thanks Mate, Great read and nice Bike.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Phatty on 11 Dec 2019 06:23 AM

    I'm thinking of getting another Fatboy taking the motor out and installing a SE 120R.

    Mate in the states says he knows where there's 2 of them New. Think I'll have to convert to chain drive as the belt doesn't last long from what I've read.
    i'm thinking a Barnett Scorpion Complete Clutch and Basket, Good enought or something better ?
    Will the standard box take it.

    There are a few big bore options that can get you down the road quickly for less coin....
  • speedzter
    speedzter
    4 years ago
    Quoting Phatty on 11 Dec 2019 06:23 AM

    I'm thinking of getting another Fatboy taking the motor out and installing a SE 120R.

    Mate in the states says he knows where there's 2 of them New. Think I'll have to convert to chain drive as the belt doesn't last long from what I've read.
    i'm thinking a Barnett Scorpion Complete Clutch and Basket, Good enought or something better ?
    Will the standard box take it.

    Quoting paulybronco on 12 Dec 2019 09:39 AM

    There are a few big bore options that can get you down the road quickly for less coin....

    And a bit more reliable !!
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    4 years ago
    Don't worry about the clutch, see how stock clutch goes if it slips bad see if can add an extra plate. putting more clutch in does nothing I found that out long ago also, too much clutch puts more stress on the gear box & belt, slipping clutch won't hurt anything. Paul is right.
    but the right 120r set up is quick, find out what heads as I've seen different120r combinations, quickest is for race only, but cams they use not very nice on the street. good luck.
  • Phatty
    Phatty
    4 years ago
    Quoting Krash Kinkade on 12 Dec 2019 09:55 AM

    Don't worry about the clutch, see how stock clutch goes if it slips bad see if can add an extra plate. putting more clutch in does nothing I found that out long ago also, too much clutch puts more stress on the gear box & belt, slipping clutch won't hurt anything. Paul is right.

    but the right 120r set up is quick, find out what heads as I've seen different120r combinations, quickest is for race only, but cams they use not very nice on the street. good luck.

    Hi Krash,
    I'll take your advice and give it a go, The 120R i'm getting is the Race version # 19206-11  not the 120ST
    This is what I've found out about it spec wise. 

    • 4.060" big-bore cylinders.
    • 4-5/8" stroke premium forged flywheels.
    • 10.5:1 high-compression nickel-plated forged pistons with
    T eflon coated skirts.
    • Titanium SST piston rings.
    • SE-266E high-lift cams.
    • Perfect Fit push rods +.030.
    • SE high-performance lifters.
    • CNC-ported MVA heads with automatic
    compression release.
    • Machined lower rocker boxes for valve
    spring collar clearance.
    • Factory-machined engine cases.
    • Unique piston oilers for stroker clearances.
    • Screamin’ Eagle inner crankcase cam needle bearings.
    • Lefty high-performance crankcase output bearing.
    • High-performance torque response engine compensator.
    • SE Performance Spark Plugs.
    For race application only.
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    4 years ago
    Quoting Krash Kinkade on 12 Dec 2019 09:55 AM

    Don't worry about the clutch, see how stock clutch goes if it slips bad see if can add an extra plate. putting more clutch in does nothing I found that out long ago also, too much clutch puts more stress on the gear box & belt, slipping clutch won't hurt anything. Paul is right.

    but the right 120r set up is quick, find out what heads as I've seen different120r combinations, quickest is for race only, but cams they use not very nice on the street. good luck.

    Quoting Phatty on 13 Dec 2019 12:40 PM

    Hi Krash,

    I'll take your advice and give it a go, The 120R i'm getting is the Race version # 19206-11  not the 120ST
    This is what I've found out about it spec wise. 

    • 4.060" big-bore cylinders.
    • 4-5/8" stroke premium forged flywheels.
    • 10.5:1 high-compression nickel-plated forged pistons with
    T eflon coated skirts.
    • Titanium SST piston rings.
    • SE-266E high-lift cams.
    • Perfect Fit push rods +.030.
    • SE high-performance lifters.
    • CNC-ported MVA heads with automatic
    compression release.
    • Machined lower rocker boxes for valve
    spring collar clearance.
    • Factory-machined engine cases.
    • Unique piston oilers for stroker clearances.
    • Screamin’ Eagle inner crankcase cam needle bearings.
    • Lefty high-performance crankcase output bearing.
    • High-performance torque response engine compensator.
    • SE Performance Spark Plugs.
    For race application only.

    Phatty , those heads are very good! they flow really well.If it was myself I would go for less cam, also I like the 4.060 " bore , but I think the 4 5/8" stoke is on long side. means your piston speed is very high. but don't worry they perform if tune is right. depends what your planning on using it for. if it was me I would go for a larger bore & shorter stroke. but have to remember Harleys are not a high rev motor. if you have your heart set on this motor. get someone who has a lot of experience with Performance Harleys, to go over this motor, check everything & help you choose a cam that will suit your riding style .
    & enjoy it!!
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Oh yes and be prepared to replace lifters on a very regular basis......if memory recalls its every 10000 klm with the std cam
  • speedzter
    speedzter
    4 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 13 Dec 2019 11:35 PM

    Oh yes and be prepared to replace lifters on a very regular basis......if memory recalls its every 10000 klm with the std cam

    But it is a "Race" motor Pauly !!
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    4 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 13 Dec 2019 11:35 PM

    Oh yes and be prepared to replace lifters on a very regular basis......if memory recalls its every 10000 klm with the std cam

    Quoting speedzter on 14 Dec 2019 12:20 AMedited: 14 Dec 2019 12:21 AM

    But it is a "Race" motor Pauly !!

    Good point!!
    but when I ran my twin cam 95" I ran up a lot of k's at drags & street, change lifters once & it could do respectable times & speeds. for what it was.
    how much valve seat pressure do these motors run?
  • Phatty
    Phatty
    4 years ago
    Been speaking to the mate in the States, The motor arrived at his place last Friday.
    I asked him about the lifter problem and we decided  to put in a new set of lifters in ( S&S Premium ) and I told him I don't want the hydraulic tensioners in there and would like a Gear drive Cam. He has checked runout and it's under 1 thou. So to decide which cam kit. S&S 640 or 675 Gear Drive kit , The 640 will bring the cam in sooner @ 3000 rpm to 6000 and the 675 will come in at around 4500 to 6200 goimg by S&S specs. I wanted something close to the original spec. 
    Going to ring him in a couple of days and see what else he has found cam wise. I won't be taking it to the drag strip but I love those lopey cams. Walve seat pressure is 200lbs

  • KiwiRob
    KiwiRob
    4 years ago
    Mate, you will need around 11 to 11.5:1 compression for all the cams mentioned and more for the 675 cams. They will be quite soggy at low RPM and come on strong around the open road speed limit. lol You can shave the heads quite a bit (arouund 88c) but you end up getting into throttle body fitment problems, which is easy to fix. Hi-comp pistons is your next option. - Rob
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    4 years ago
    Quoting Phatty on 18 Dec 2019 01:54 PM

    Been speaking to the mate in the States, The motor arrived at his place last Friday.

    I asked him about the lifter problem and we decided  to put in a new set of lifters in ( S&S Premium ) and I told him I don't want the hydraulic tensioners in there and would like a Gear drive Cam. He has checked runout and it's under 1 thou. So to decide which cam kit. S&S 640 or 675 Gear Drive kit , The 640 will bring the cam in sooner @ 3000 rpm to 6000 and the 675 will come in at around 4500 to 6200 goimg by S&S specs. I wanted something close to the original spec. 
    Going to ring him in a couple of days and see what else he has found cam wise. I won't be taking it to the drag strip but I love those lopey cams. Walve seat pressure is 200lbs

    good move on the S&S premium lifters, I have them in my motor & quite start easy. I would go with the S&S 640, get your friend to check how high pistons come up in bore, you would want them at least up to about 40 thou from top, if too low might be good to machine barrels to get pistons up . also ask him to check how many pound valve seat pressure as if too high I would look into dropping seat pressure as if lifters failing, that's first think I would check.
  • Phatty
    Phatty
    4 years ago
    I'll be talking to me Mate again on Friday and see what info I get back. He is going to speak with the S&S Techs about compression, Piston height, Valve pressure ect ect.
    He doesn't want to pull the heads off unless he has to  as it is a new motor.
  • Phatty
    Phatty
    4 years ago
    Ok Spoke with me mate and here is what's happening.
    Heads are off and are getting milled to increase compression to 11.5, Piston from top of barrels is .028 front and .0275 rear so we are good there.
    .030 gaskets will be going back on between the barrel and heads. He asked if I was going to take it down the track reguarly, I said no mate no intention to do the 1/4 mile just want a lumpy big motor and to give it a squirt somtimes. He has the cams there to install once the heads are done.
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting Phatty on 01 Jan 2020 01:57 PMedited: 01 Jan 2020 02:02 PM

    Ok Spoke with me mate and here is what's happening.

    Heads are off and are getting milled to increase compression to 11.5, Piston from top of barrels is .028 front and .0275 rear so we are good there.
    .030 gaskets will be going back on between the barrel and heads. He asked if I was going to take it down the track reguarly, I said no mate no intention to do the 1/4 mile just want a lumpy big motor and to give it a squirt somtimes. He has the cams there to install once the heads are done.

    This could well be a cranky motor running very hot in our Brizzie heat. Going to need a good tune to stop it pinging its self to death. Keep the updates coming
  • tussuck
    tussuck
    4 years ago
    Quoting Phatty on 01 Jan 2020 01:57 PMedited: 01 Jan 2020 02:02 PM

    Ok Spoke with me mate and here is what's happening.

    Heads are off and are getting milled to increase compression to 11.5, Piston from top of barrels is .028 front and .0275 rear so we are good there.
    .030 gaskets will be going back on between the barrel and heads. He asked if I was going to take it down the track reguarly, I said no mate no intention to do the 1/4 mile just want a lumpy big motor and to give it a squirt somtimes. He has the cams there to install once the heads are done.

    Quoting paulybronco on 01 Jan 2020 10:52 PM

    This could well be a cranky motor running very hot in our Brizzie heat. Going to need a good tune to stop it pinging its self to death. Keep the updates coming

    Gotta agree.... 11.5 is high so will need spot on timing and fueling to keep it sounding happy.  
  • speedzter
    speedzter
    4 years ago
    The numbers are a little bit strange (Pistons down the hole @ .028 front and .0275 rear)  ?

    Also it will take a fair chunk of milling to get to 11.5:1 , it will likely upset TDC valve to piston clearance depending on Cam choice.
    What Cam  ?  11.5:1 would be spot on for the S&S 640, around 9.5:1 corrected @ 200psi CCP .
  • Phatty
    Phatty
    4 years ago
    Quoting speedzter on 02 Jan 2020 01:29 AM

    The numbers are a little bit strange (Pistons down the hole @ .028 front and .0275 rear)  ?

    Also it will take a fair chunk of milling to get to 11.5:1 , it will likely upset TDC valve to piston clearance depending on Cam choice.
    What Cam  ?  11.5:1 would be spot on for the S&S 640, around 9.5:1 corrected @ 200psi CCP .

    .028 and .0275 is how low the piston is from TDC in the barrel at it's highest point. The rear is only 1/2 a thou difference from the front.
    I was asked by Krash to see where they sat. Cams are the S&S 640 Gear Drive. I have no idea what is involved in milling and all the other maching to get the compression.
    The maching wont happen till next week after he checks it all out. I'll be talking to him Saturday to get info before it all goes ahead.
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