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  • magnum54 Posts: 101
    Stock Poster magnum54
    26 Jul 2020 12:13 PM
    Quoting gidgi on 26 Jul 2020 07:41 AM
    I had a S&S cam done on my 103 roady  35K`s ago with no new lifters , they needed doing a couple months ago , I went with "Fueling" was recommended by my Indie shop
    Feuling have HP+ lifters and Race Series lifters, the Race Series , higher priced, have had failures recorded in the past.
    Not sure if that has been rectified.
  • TJU Posts: 1224
    Logan , Qld .
    Performance Poster TJU
    27 Jul 2020 01:54 PM

    Hi guys .. quick update , still waiting to hear back from shop .. they are fairly sure it`s a lifter issue but won`t get ahead of myself until I hear exactly what it is .

    Most likely will go with the Fuelling lifters .. have heard some good things about the HP+ ones they have .. Magnum54 , have heard the same thing about the Race Series items so will steer clear from them .

    A bit wet and windy up here at the moment so good time to get this sorted .. check back in soon .. Cheers .

     

  • Baloffski Posts: 2244
    Victoria
    Motor Head Baloffski
    27 Jul 2020 02:26 PM
    Thanks man. I like hearing Ur story on Glide. Interesting.
  • Birtyyy Posts: 215
    Sunshine Coast
    Stock Poster Birtyyy
    28 Jul 2020 09:07 AM
    Dropping mine off to the shop today. Bike is only 18 months old so I'm hopeful if it is lifters it will be covered by warranty.
  • TJU Posts: 1224
    Logan , Qld .
    Performance Poster TJU
    28 Jul 2020 05:07 PM

    ** Up Date ** .. Apologies for the essay , I tend to get carried away sometimes .. Ok got some Bad News - Good News .. So it wasn`t a Dropped lifter , it was a Broken Valve spring in the rear cylinder exhaust Valve .. Was extremely lucky it didn`t cause any other Damage .. apparently a good thing about the M8 heads compared to other Harley Heads .. so that's Good news as well as .. Amazingly .. it`s going to be covered under Warranty .. I was Happy to hear that news let me tell ya , considering that the bike and motor are near on 3 years old now .. not going to argue with them that's for sure .. Googled broken M8 valve springs and the description or at least one of them said it sounds Very much like a Loose exhaust which is what i first thought the issue was .. if ya Google Moonshine Harley Davidson .. out of the States , they have some info as well plus a load of other interesting informative stuff .  


    So the story goes .. so I have been told .. that back in 2017 when these Stage 4 kits first came out there was a supposedly Bad Batch of Valve springs that came out of the Factory .. remembering that these were the upgraded springs over stock to handle the higher lift cam that comes with the kit .. something to do with Bad Metallurgy with the material they were using at the time .. I was informed that the Factory has since upgraded the Springs again and there hasn`t been anywhere near as many issues since .. Fingers crossed .. the shop is going to check for me but might go with a different company for the Springs even though it will cost me money if I go away from the Factory items .. depending on the cost I may go down that track , for peace of mind .


     The shop has been real good and upfront with the way to go and the parts to use .. they have said money wise for sure go with the newest Factory springs but have no issues with using the aftermarket springs .. plus they said if it were to happen again then it should be covered as well .. depending on when and if it was to happen again of course .. the springs they use are Kielber White or Kelier White or something like that .. maybe someone has heard of them .. they can withstand a higher lift Cam apparently .. so as long as all the labour cost are covered that's the way I might end up going .. we will see .


    It again supposedly is not a very big issue World wide and even a lesser issue than Oil Transfer or Sumping so I can only imagine that the MoCo feels that if there are any cases World wide then they will cover it .. which I suppose is why they have covered it this time .


    Still going to go with the Factory 2020 upgraded Oil Pump and Cam wise have settled on the Fuelling Reaper 465 .. Very similar to the Andrews 464 Cam I was thinking of .. Biggest difference is the Reaper Cam has a nice Lumpy note to it at idle .. got to love that Lumpy Cam sound , Lol .. Will be using Fuelling Lifters .. S.E. adjustable Pushrods .. New Cam Bearing and of course all new seals and Gaskets .. The other big change for me to get my head around is they have asked me to bring in my stock Throttle Body , which I have .. they are going to marry it up with a new S.E. Alloy manifold and use the 5.5 Injectors and same Heavy Breather Air Cleaner .. also they have recommended decking the heads just sightly .. going from the now 11 to 1 compression to most likely 11.5 to 1 .. should give that little bit extra down low as well .. don`t want to go any higher compression wise for reliability reasons plus I do a lot of our riding in the Country and you cant always get decent fuel out in the sticks , Lol .


    So there is a big chance I will have a 64 mil Throttle Body and matching Manifold sitting on the shelf or possibly for sale .. when I asked them to explain why they were going somewhat backwards they were really good about it .. they said that when the first Stage 4 kits were brought out there hadn't been enough testing of other products .. and now of course there are Multiple other choices .. they feel that my Motor combination is what they call a Mild build .. here I was thinking I had a Big Tough Motor , Lol .. and by having the bigger Throttle body and so on it doesn't get the best performance out of her .. so I am going to take them at their word and hope I really feel a difference when she is back together .


    So the adventure continues .. should only be off the road for a week or so .. pretty keen to see how it feels .. and of course what else and where else I can spend more money .. it`s a Serious illness some of us Harley owners have .. are there any support groups out there for Addicted Harley owners like me .. Lol .. Cheers .  

  • Jay-Dee Posts: 310
    Great South East
    Stage 1 Poster Jay-Dee
    28 Jul 2020 09:37 PM
    Kibblewhite.

    Keep in mind with regards to a "lumpy" cam if it doesn't make useful power in the RPM range where you want it too, irrespective of how tough it might sound you probably won't be happy.
  • Baloffski Posts: 2244
    Victoria
    Motor Head Baloffski
    29 Jul 2020 12:04 AM
    What the Fuck is Kibble white.? Am not ignorant, but just naive.
    64 mother fucken pumper, I like. But course things as alway are a balance, and am sure you have the correct people walking the tightrope for ya. Bike does look great I gotta say. Many don't like or appreciate Road Glides. Thats cool.
    Twas considering selling mine old girl, but would get fuc all for her, and have spent too many , shall say intimate times with her and too many dollars..... Am going to transfor Road Glide next year to a....... 
    Keep it coming TJU, is really ood stuff friend.
  • Jay-Dee Posts: 310
    Great South East
    Stage 1 Poster Jay-Dee
    29 Jul 2020 11:59 AM
    Quoting Baloffski on 29 Jul 2020 12:04 AM
    What the Fuck is Kibble white.? Am not ignorant, but just naive.
    64 mother fucken pumper, I like. But course things as alway are a balance, and am sure you have the correct people walking the tightrope for ya. Bike does look great I gotta say. Many don't like or appreciate Road Glides. Thats cool.
    Twas considering selling mine old girl, but would get fuc all for her, and have spent too many , shall say intimate times with her and too many dollars..... Am going to transfor Road Glide next year to a....... 
    Keep it coming TJU, is really ood stuff friend.
    Read the third paragraph of the OP's last post, Kibblewhite will make sense to you then.
  • TJU Posts: 1224
    Logan , Qld .
    Performance Poster TJU
    29 Jul 2020 01:50 PM

    Jay-Dee .. thanks for the heads up regarding the Kibblewhite name of the valve springs .. definitely know what you mean about making useful power where I want it .. the whole Lumpy Cam thing was just a small bonus as the Reaper 465 is near identical to the Andrews 464 in where it comes in at and how far they hold the power and so on in builds like mine .. so I have been told by the Techs ..  but definitely appreciate the thoughts , please feel free to write anything you may think I have missed .. Cheers .


    Baloffski .. I tell ya it took awhile for me to get my head around going to the smaller Throttle body and Manifold .. but these guys seem to know what they are talking about and what I really like is they don`t try and push more expensive products that more than likely wouldn`t compliment my build , in fact I reckon they have saved me more than 2,000.00 dollars by convincing me there was no need for all the stuff I was originally going to put in the Beast .. there is always a chance it will come back to bite me , But I have to take a chance on people sometimes and hope for the best .. for example I still don`t totally understand how it is covered under Warranty being as though it is 3 years old and one never knows for sure but I could have taken it elsewhere and if those people were not as honest I could have been up for a lot more money and I wouldn`t have thought twice about it thinking that it was out of Warranty .


    Of course the proof will be that first ride to see if the low down feeling is better and the overall performance I suppose .. another week or so before I get it back so will drop back in and let ya know how it all went .. Cheers .


    Birtyyy .. did you get any good news regarding your noise issue .

  • steelo Posts: 3155
    Adelaide
    Forum Legend steelo
    29 Jul 2020 01:52 PM
    I thought kibble white was a type of bread with extra grain in it
  • Birtyyy Posts: 215
    Sunshine Coast
    Stock Poster Birtyyy
    29 Jul 2020 03:57 PM
    Haven't heard anything as yet...
  • Jay-Dee Posts: 310
    Great South East
    Stage 1 Poster Jay-Dee
    29 Jul 2020 09:30 PM
    Quoting TJU on 29 Jul 2020 01:50 PM

    Jay-Dee .. thanks for the heads up regarding the Kibblewhite name of the valve springs .. definitely know what you mean about making useful power where I want it .. the whole Lumpy Cam thing was just a small bonus as the Reaper 465 is near identical to the Andrews 464 in where it comes in at and how far they hold the power and so on in builds like mine .. so I have been told by the Techs ..  but definitely appreciate the thoughts , please feel free to write anything you may think I have missed .. Cheers .


    Baloffski .. I tell ya it took awhile for me to get my head around going to the smaller Throttle body and Manifold .. but these guys seem to know what they are talking about and what I really like is they don`t try and push more expensive products that more than likely wouldn`t compliment my build , in fact I reckon they have saved me more than 2,000.00 dollars by convincing me there was no need for all the stuff I was originally going to put in the Beast .. there is always a chance it will come back to bite me , But I have to take a chance on people sometimes and hope for the best .. for example I still don`t totally understand how it is covered under Warranty being as though it is 3 years old and one never knows for sure but I could have taken it elsewhere and if those people were not as honest I could have been up for a lot more money and I wouldn`t have thought twice about it thinking that it was out of Warranty .


    Of course the proof will be that first ride to see if the low down feeling is better and the overall performance I suppose .. another week or so before I get it back so will drop back in and let ya know how it all went .. Cheers .


    Birtyyy .. did you get any good news regarding your noise issue .


    I had a look at the specs on their websites and the difference between the two will be pretty marginal as you said. The Fueling cam might make torque slightly earlier and theoretically carry it a little longer but the difference won't be anything that you'd notice with your butt dyno. They both look like cams that will make good torque/power lower down so either should be ok to ride.

    I can't imagine there would be a lot of difference in how they idle either, the Fueling might be slightly lumpier. I was interested to see Fueling's dyno graphs showed a very similar RPM for the peak power for both the 107 and 114 engines, I would think the 114 would be a bit lower.

    If you don't mind could you please PM me who the shop is working on it for you if you don't want to say publicly, thanks.
  • Jay-Dee Posts: 310
    Great South East
    Stage 1 Poster Jay-Dee
    29 Jul 2020 09:38 PM
    Quoting steelo on 29 Jul 2020 01:52 PM
    I thought kibble white was a type of bread with extra grain in it
  • Birtyyy Posts: 215
    Sunshine Coast
    Stock Poster Birtyyy
    30 Jul 2020 10:18 AM
    Quoting TJU on 29 Jul 2020 01:50 PM

    Jay-Dee .. thanks for the heads up regarding the Kibblewhite name of the valve springs .. definitely know what you mean about making useful power where I want it .. the whole Lumpy Cam thing was just a small bonus as the Reaper 465 is near identical to the Andrews 464 in where it comes in at and how far they hold the power and so on in builds like mine .. so I have been told by the Techs ..  but definitely appreciate the thoughts , please feel free to write anything you may think I have missed .. Cheers .


    Baloffski .. I tell ya it took awhile for me to get my head around going to the smaller Throttle body and Manifold .. but these guys seem to know what they are talking about and what I really like is they don`t try and push more expensive products that more than likely wouldn`t compliment my build , in fact I reckon they have saved me more than 2,000.00 dollars by convincing me there was no need for all the stuff I was originally going to put in the Beast .. there is always a chance it will come back to bite me , But I have to take a chance on people sometimes and hope for the best .. for example I still don`t totally understand how it is covered under Warranty being as though it is 3 years old and one never knows for sure but I could have taken it elsewhere and if those people were not as honest I could have been up for a lot more money and I wouldn`t have thought twice about it thinking that it was out of Warranty .


    Of course the proof will be that first ride to see if the low down feeling is better and the overall performance I suppose .. another week or so before I get it back so will drop back in and let ya know how it all went .. Cheers .


    Birtyyy .. did you get any good news regarding your noise issue .

    Quoting Jay-Dee on 29 Jul 2020 09:30 PMedited: 29 Jul 2020 09:31 PM

    I had a look at the specs on their websites and the difference between the two will be pretty marginal as you said. The Fueling cam might make torque slightly earlier and theoretically carry it a little longer but the difference won't be anything that you'd notice with your butt dyno. They both look like cams that will make good torque/power lower down so either should be ok to ride.

    I can't imagine there would be a lot of difference in how they idle either, the Fueling might be slightly lumpier. I was interested to see Fueling's dyno graphs showed a very similar RPM for the peak power for both the 107 and 114 engines, I would think the 114 would be a bit lower.

    If you don't mind could you please PM me who the shop is working on it for you if you don't want to say publicly, thanks.
    I'm actually also interested in who's doing the work. Haven't found a good workshop since I've moved to QLD.
  • Benno Posts: 249
    Brisbane Qld
    Stock Poster Benno
    30 Jul 2020 11:02 AM
    Birtyy, I have been hearing good things about Farrows Customs in Nambour so I got them to quote me some pipes recently, all contact via e-mail at that stage. They were really good to deal with and they came in a couple of hundred cheaper than Brisbane supplier so I ordered them, drove up to pick them up last Friday and they were very friendly, the workshop was packed with bikes, I asked them about working on Shovels and Evo's and the quick to say the worked on all models, that is a rare these days.  
  • Birtyyy Posts: 215
    Sunshine Coast
    Stock Poster Birtyyy
    30 Jul 2020 01:00 PM
    Quoting Benno on 30 Jul 2020 11:02 AM
    Birtyy, I have been hearing good things about Farrows Customs in Nambour so I got them to quote me some pipes recently, all contact via e-mail at that stage. They were really good to deal with and they came in a couple of hundred cheaper than Brisbane supplier so I ordered them, drove up to pick them up last Friday and they were very friendly, the workshop was packed with bikes, I asked them about working on Shovels and Evo's and the quick to say the worked on all models, that is a rare these days.  
    Actually Farrows are the only shop I've been to since moving and I definitely won't be going back there. One of the worst experiences I've ever had with any workshop...
  • Benno Posts: 249
    Brisbane Qld
    Stock Poster Benno
    30 Jul 2020 03:00 PM
    Quoting Benno on 30 Jul 2020 11:02 AM
    Birtyy, I have been hearing good things about Farrows Customs in Nambour so I got them to quote me some pipes recently, all contact via e-mail at that stage. They were really good to deal with and they came in a couple of hundred cheaper than Brisbane supplier so I ordered them, drove up to pick them up last Friday and they were very friendly, the workshop was packed with bikes, I asked them about working on Shovels and Evo's and the quick to say the worked on all models, that is a rare these days.  
    Quoting Birtyyy on 30 Jul 2020 01:00 PM
    Actually Farrows are the only shop I've been to since moving and I definitely won't be going back there. One of the worst experiences I've ever had with any workshop...
    Fair enough, I use a bloke in Caboolture to do some work on my bike, Stu Firth, his business is called Firth Racing, been using him for about 3 years now, never had any issue's with his work.
  • TJU Posts: 1224
    Logan , Qld .
    Performance Poster TJU
    30 Jul 2020 06:47 PM

    My apologies Gentlemen … the Shop is Morgan & Wacker … quick back story , bought bike at Gasoline Ally , Sth of Brisbane … had a fair bit of the work done there … never had any issues really apart from like a lot of Dealers they don`t seem to let you talk to the actual Techs who work on the bikes , not a big deal to most but I like to talk to the guys doing the work … I do like to try and stay Loyal when possible but in this situation they were fully booked out for near on 2 weeks and I didn`t want to wait that long to find out what the noise was … and luckily I didn`t as I could have caused more Damage it I rode around for a couple more weeks .

    Of course when the guys at Wacker`s found the issue everything was pulled apart so it would have been crazy to put it all back together just to go back to Gasoline … and the Major added bonus for me was how the Tech came out and discussed all my options and as mentioned in earlier post they actually saved me quite a bit of money by convincing me I didn`t need to go Top Shelf on certain parts I was looking at with the build I have .    

    Jay-Dee … interesting what you were saying about the similar read out for both 107 and 114 motors … will be curious to see how it reads with the Compression on mine going from 11 to 1 up to 11.5 to 1

    Birtyyy … what area of Lovely Qld are you based … haven`t had any dealings with Farrows so can`t comment … have a mate who has had some Motor work done at Maroochydore Harley Davidson , he hasn`t had any complaints … I believe the Head Tech is guy that goes by the name Doc , he used to be Head Tech with " Heavy Duty " a aftermarket bike shop situated out Oxley way … West of Brisbane … again depending on where you are and how long you prefer to travel when going to a bike shop there are a few options .

    There is a guy down Upper Coomera way , down near Dream World … Steve Smith … he did a Huge amount of work on my 08 Twin Cam , sadly now gone , and also my 99 Springer … Really knows his stuff but being a 1 man operation can take awhile sometimes to get things done … we had a Falling out over another issue which was a bummer because he was Really good to talk to and as mentioned Really seemed to know his stuff … If using him Make Sure you lock in a Solid Strict time , Don`t ever say to Any of these people .. Take your time mate , no rush .. because they will definitely take their time .

    Another worthy mention is Fred at " Pro Cycle Dyno " down in Slacks Creek .. a few minutes up the road from Gasoline Ally .. pretty clued up on Dyno`s .. But .. very much in the same vain as the guy above .. he is always so busy .. but again a very Friendly Knowledgeable fellow .

    Hope that all helps … Cheers .



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