Online: beaglebasher

Crank Shaft / Fly Wheels

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  • TJU
    TJU
    3 years ago

    Hi All .. was curious as to how many reliable Crank Shaft / Fly Wheel company`s were out there .. of course I am aware of the Products coming out of S & S .. and also the items from Dark Horse / Man - of - War .


    Were there many others .

  • tussuck
    tussuck
    3 years ago
    No idea... BUT some good YOUTUBE Vids on Pinning vs welding etc of the cranks.  (ie Welding is chit compared to Pinning)
  • TJU
    TJU
    3 years ago
    Hi Tussuck .. yeah have been  checking out heaps of youtube stuff these last few months since retiring and even more so these last few weeks while the pride and joy is being worked on .. not always a good thing as i Get to many ideas , Lol .. i miss my Baby .
    I reckon there would be a few people here in Australia that are capable of fixing / repairing Crank Shaft / Flywheels , but was just courious how many Big name companys that are selling ones suited for the new M8's .. all good .
  • liberator
    liberator
    3 years ago
    Truet and Osborn,
    http://www.truettandosborn.com/
  • TJU
    TJU
    3 years ago
    Thanks liberator .. will have a Gander .
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    3 years ago
    Quoting TJU on 16 Aug 2020 06:50 AM

    Hi Tussuck .. yeah have been  checking out heaps of youtube stuff these last few months since retiring and even more so these last few weeks while the pride and joy is being worked on .. not always a good thing as i Get to many ideas , Lol .. i miss my Baby .

    I reckon there would be a few people here in Australia that are capable of fixing / repairing Crank Shaft / Flywheels , but was just courious how many Big name companys that are selling ones suited for the new M8's .. all good .

    You got Oli, up your way, who is set up to do late model HD press fit pin flywheels.
    & he knows his stuff!!
  • TJU
    TJU
    3 years ago
    Hi Krash .. yeah i know about Oli .. he has my Crank / Fly Wheels out of my M8 at the moment , Via Wackers .. had 8 thou runout .. i know the factory specs say up to 12 thou was acceptable for the M8's , but for me i believe that is way to much runout .
    I haven't been able to  find a single Harley mechanic / technician , outside of Official Dearlerships of couse that say anything over 5 thou was acceptable .. most say maximum 2 or 3 thou .

    That was why i was courious about other full set ups so to speak .. had contacted Rollies about S & S set ups .. roughly 2,900.00 .. and of course all the labour .. but there were none in the country .. approximately 6 to 8 weeks before they would be in country .

    Dark Horse , Man - of - War set ups were approximately  3,600.00 and possibly more with shipping  cost .

    Wackers have convinced me to go with Oli , based on what i have told them about my riding habits and so on , so now the wait to  get it back from Oli and for Wackers to reassemble the beast along with the topend broken exhaust valve spring plus of course putting in the latest upgraded oil pump and swaping out the S.E. power cam for a Reaper 465 Tourqe cam .

    While i would have liked to throw all the Super good stuff in there , the reality is that now i am retired i have to watch my pennies and as i have given up the Drag racing .. ( i was shit at it anyway , Lol  ) .. and want to concentrate  on rides away with the Missus .. the main thing i want is reliability .

    So fingers crossed i have made the right decision.. and hopefully many years of reliable riding ahead .
  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    3 years ago
    Quoting TJU on 17 Aug 2020 04:48 AM

    Hi Krash .. yeah i know about Oli .. he has my Crank / Fly Wheels out of my M8 at the moment , Via Wackers .. had 8 thou runout .. i know the factory specs say up to 12 thou was acceptable for the M8's , but for me i believe that is way to much runout .

    I haven't been able to  find a single Harley mechanic / technician , outside of Official Dearlerships of couse that say anything over 5 thou was acceptable .. most say maximum 2 or 3 thou .

    That was why i was courious about other full set ups so to speak .. had contacted Rollies about S & S set ups .. roughly 2,900.00 .. and of course all the labour .. but there were none in the country .. approximately 6 to 8 weeks before they would be in country .

    Dark Horse , Man - of - War set ups were approximately  3,600.00 and possibly more with shipping  cost .

    Wackers have convinced me to go with Oli , based on what i have told them about my riding habits and so on , so now the wait to  get it back from Oli and for Wackers to reassemble the beast along with the topend broken exhaust valve spring plus of course putting in the latest upgraded oil pump and swaping out the S.E. power cam for a Reaper 465 Tourqe cam .

    While i would have liked to throw all the Super good stuff in there , the reality is that now i am retired i have to watch my pennies and as i have given up the Drag racing .. ( i was shit at it anyway , Lol  ) .. and want to concentrate  on rides away with the Missus .. the main thing i want is reliability .

    So fingers crossed i have made the right decision.. and hopefully many years of reliable riding ahead .

    Trouble is, with the big crank pin & the force you need to use to just press fit that big pin out or in, you have to have a special set up to do the job. of just pressing the pin out or in. after you get it out you could snap freeze to make it easier to put back in. And you could make up a special jig to hold the flywheels, for putting pin back in. but how are you going to true them?
    the old style flywheels like EVO & older had, you could true them and could get them near perfect , sometimes very hard to do. but the new one's very hard. only way I could think or getting cose to perfect, would be to have a very large batch of Flywheels at engine assembly plant & before putting them into a motor to build check Coppoling & then the run out, if the copping is out the run out would be out. you would just have to check a big batch to maybe find one a bit better. but they are mass production. what your after is product improved.
    good luck. I might add, even though the new larger press fit pin needs a lot of force to press out or in, the flywheels are a much better design. & stronger.
  • TJU
    TJU
    3 years ago

    Apologies for the length of my Ramble . 


    Hi again Krash .. thanks again for the reply .. can I just say that I am one of those guys that has only a Basic understanding of all things mechanical and electrical .. or another way of putting it is I am Ok in understanding stuff in Theory .. to a point .. but not so hot with the practical side of things .. I enjoy the challenge of small jobs like changing handlebars and running the internal wiring , a job I did just recently on my 99 Springer .. or the achievement of sorting out a fuel overflow issue on same bike .. but most of the bigger jobs I leave to the Professionals and have to take a chance they are doing the right thing by me .. not always a easy choice to live with that's for sure .


    Just reading your reply .. please correct me if I am wrong , but are you saying that it would be very hard with these new M8 Cranks / Fly wheels to be repaired .. possibly I used the wrong terminology when saying Oli is going to True and Balance my stock Crank shaft back to acceptable runout specs .


    When Wackers told me Oli would be able to get the Crank back into decent runout figures I quite possibly wrongly assumed that he would have to True and Balance it to get those figures .. did I get that wrong .. is there a way he can achieve getting those decent figures without the way you were saying or the way I was thinking .


    Can I ask when it comes to the M8`s and the Factory 12 thou acceptable runout .. mine having 8 thou runout ..  is that something you and others would find unacceptable .. for me I just would have been always unhappy knowing how much runout there was if I would have said yes to putting it back together with that much runout .


    As mentioned earlier I have to take a chance that the Pro`s know what they are talking about and doing the right thing by me but it is hard sometimes .. so far Wackers .. SEEM .. to be doing the right thing and Not Gouging me for extra things I don`t need .. BUT .. I must admit there a couple of things I wanted to do while the whole thing was pulled down .. for example I wanted to have the Timkin bearing conversion done to the left side Crankcase as I believe the Original set up is a contributor among other things  to runout issues with Bigger than stock motors .. Wackers never gave me a price but said it was quite an Expensive job to get done and there were not a lot of Qualified guys here to do that type of job .. they did say if I was building a Drag Bike or told them I was a Hard Charger then yes they would recommend going down that path .. but .. for my size motor and the description I gave them about my riding style then it would be better to save my money .


    The one that sort of had me feeling a tad strange was when I asked about External Breather kits .. they don`t seem to be real keen on them .. I rightly or wrongly thought it was a no brainer .. why would anyone think it was a good idea to have the Hot Dirty oily misty air to go back through the throttle body .. I know they have to do it in the States due to the Crazy EPA laws .. but like I said I suppose I have to trust someone sometime , Lol .


    Major apologies for the Ramble .. I can get carried away .. thanks again for the thoughts .       

  • leachy
    leachy
    3 years ago
    Hi TJU,
    All good questions and concerns when you start handing out that sort of money. There a guy on YouTube "Pro Twin" that possibly covers these questions. He seems like he knows what his talking about, and talks about cranks on the M8 and twins.

    Regards
    Leachy 
  • TJU
    TJU
    3 years ago

    Hi Leachy .. Yeah mate his name is Kevin Baxter .. he has a .. LOT .. of really informative you tube vids .. plus guys like the Gentleman from T-man performance products .. or DK Customs .. and Baker gearbox and drivetrain company .. and so many more , most of them people who are well renowned through out the High Performance Harley industry in the States .


    That's why I was a little sceptical when Wackers said to not worry about things like an External Breather kit .. but as mentioned earlier I have to take them at their word I suppose .


    Thanks for having a read and replying .. cheers .  

  • leachy
    leachy
    3 years ago
    I guess its a leap of faith. If they are covering the warranty on the work its their decision I guess. But its always possible to over engineer and over think the situation and the options, but I guess the fun of a Harley. 
    You just need deep pockets. 
  • TJU
    TJU
    3 years ago

    Gidday Leachy .. Deep Pockets was Ok .. sort of .. when I was still working but now in my Elder years , Lol , now that I am retired things are a Tad more stressful when these big money projects arise .. and like you said I suppose its all the fun of owning and Customising a Harley .


    I wish they were covering the Warranty but sadly it is all coming out of my pocket .. excluding the Broken Valve Springs , they are being covered thank God .. the Crank repair and all the Labour that comes with it is all on me .. and also of course the Upgraded Oil Pump and the swapping out of the S.E. power Cam for the Fuelling Reaper Torque Cam are on me as well of course .


    Those Deep Pockets are well and truly in a huge need of a fill up .. Lol .

  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    3 years ago
    TJU Oli is good & knows his stuff so I would go with him.
    I would not give jobs to people just because YouTube stars.
    just wondering why you had the run out checked?
  • TJU
    TJU
    3 years ago

    Hi again Krash .. Totally agree that Oli knows his stuff .. so much so that just about everyone up here goes to him to get their work done and of course things tend to take awhile to come back .. but it is what it is .


    The You Tube stuff I take with pretty much a grain of salt .. But .. when you have Multiple well known renowned Harley Technicians all saying the same thing then I think it warrants a little research and consideration .


    Reason for checking runout in the first place was because Originally there was the ticking noise which turned out to be the Broken Exhaust Valve Spring in Rear Cylinder .. all new set being installed under Warranty , Ye Ha .. I was always going to get the 17 Oil Pump upgraded to the newest 2020 one to assist with any possible Sumpping and of course I wanted to change the power cam to a torque cam . 


    So while it was half pulled down as they pulled the heads off to make sure there was no damage after finding the Broken Valve Spring .. I figured to check a few other things such as the run out .. as mentioned earlier the Factory specs for the new M8`s state 12 thou was Ok .. mine being at 8 thou I was never going to be comfortable with that figure .


    And that is where I am up to at this moment .. Cheers .    

  • Krash Kinkade
    Krash Kinkade
    3 years ago
    TJU, you were lucky! I thought they had beehive springs?
  • Jay-Dee
    Jay-Dee
    3 years ago
    Quoting TJU on 20 Aug 2020 07:42 AMedited: 20 Aug 2020 07:47 AM

    Hi again Krash .. Totally agree that Oli knows his stuff .. so much so that just about everyone up here goes to him to get their work done and of course things tend to take awhile to come back .. but it is what it is .


    The You Tube stuff I take with pretty much a grain of salt .. But .. when you have Multiple well known renowned Harley Technicians all saying the same thing then I think it warrants a little research and consideration .


    Reason for checking runout in the first place was because Originally there was the ticking noise which turned out to be the Broken Exhaust Valve Spring in Rear Cylinder .. all new set being installed under Warranty , Ye Ha .. I was always going to get the 17 Oil Pump upgraded to the newest 2020 one to assist with any possible Sumpping and of course I wanted to change the power cam to a torque cam . 


    So while it was half pulled down as they pulled the heads off to make sure there was no damage after finding the Broken Valve Spring .. I figured to check a few other things such as the run out .. as mentioned earlier the Factory specs for the new M8`s state 12 thou was Ok .. mine being at 8 thou I was never going to be comfortable with that figure .


    And that is where I am up to at this moment .. Cheers .    

    Someone mentioned him to me a while ago for something and I couldn't find him searching anywhere other than his name maybe mentioned on a forum or similar.
    I've heard he doesn't deal with the public (probably for good reason), only through dealers etc.
  • Phatty
    Phatty
    3 years ago
    Yeah Oli is real good, Was speaking to him not long ago about heads and barrels I want to get done and he only lives 10 minutes from my place.
  • TJU
    TJU
    3 years ago

    Don`t know how much Truth in it but there is talk he is heading back to N.Z. .. will be a Bummer if he goes as there are fewer and fewer guys left that can do what he does .


    Plenty of Excellent Harley Mechanics .. in Dealers and Private , but the type of work he and a few others around Australia are capable of are getting a bit thin .. Sadly  

  • Bangkokbob
    Bangkokbob
    3 years ago
    Bottom ends are special and shops usually farm them out rather than lose workshop space for the occasional work.
    Lots of gear, time and someone that knows their shit as well.
    Anything under 1.5 thou should be OK.
    Thats also why Harley went to chains inside their motors to take up the extra runout provided this century.
    Regards,
    B.B.
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