oil cooler and winter

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oil cooler and winter

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Nath103
4 years ago

Is it worth while making a block off plate for the oil cooler I fitted to my Breakout with it heading into the cooler months?

paulybronco
4 years ago

Quoting Nath103 on 16 Mar 2020 12:11 AM
Is it worth while making a block off plate for the oil cooler I fitted to my Breakout with it heading into the cooler months?

No. Like any ride start the bike and by the time you gear up and ride off dont rev the crap out of it and a few klm down the road it will be close to normal temp

Wideglider
4 years ago

My aftermarket oil cooler (Jagg) has a thermostat to bypass the cooler at low temps and progressively allow more cooling as oil heats up. Thinking a factory fitted cooler would have the same.

paulybronco
4 years ago

Quoting Wideglider on 16 Mar 2020 01:30 AM
My aftermarket oil cooler (Jagg) has a thermostat to bypass the cooler at low temps and progressively allow more cooling as oil heats up. Thinking a factory fitted cooler would have the same.

They do but dont believe a breakout has one as std fitment so perhaps aftermarket.

paulybronco
4 years ago

I am told that the thermostat is fully open anyway at 85c on a factory fitted bike

speedzter
4 years ago

To get the oil up to operating temperature in cold weather can take a surprising amount of time in a Twin Cam.
This can cause the oil filter to go into bypass mode due to high oil pressure.
If you ride in really cold/wet weather, a cooler cover would likely be a good idea.

Running an oil cooler thermostatic bypass places a further restriction in the oil flow path.
As we know, the oil pressure feed has to flow through the filter and cooler ( + thermostat) first.
A long winded way of saying I don't like the idea of a bypass !

RossW
4 years ago

Quoting Wideglider on 16 Mar 2020 01:30 AM
My aftermarket oil cooler (Jagg) has a thermostat to bypass the cooler at low temps and progressively allow more cooling as oil heats up. Thinking a factory fitted cooler would have the same.

Quoting paulybronco on 16 Mar 2020 01:58 AM
They do but dont believe a breakout has one as std fitment so perhaps aftermarket.

I think an M8 one does.

Ken in Cairns
4 years ago

A properly designed thermostat with by-pass should not add any restrictions to oil flow.
If your cooler had a thermostat no need to cover it, but you need to find out how if it does or doesn't as if it doesn't it could really under cool the oil.
Just an Engineers opinion.

Nath103
4 years ago

Its a 2014 breakout with the HD oil cooler kit thats down near the left foot.
Ive got a couple of cold weather rides coming up however it shouldnt be minus something degrees.
Cheers for the feedback on both sides of the scale

paulybronco
4 years ago

Quoting Nath103 on 17 Mar 2020 10:01 PM
Its a 2014 breakout with the HD oil cooler kit thats down near the left foot.
Ive got a couple of cold weather rides coming up however it shouldnt be minus something degrees.
Cheers for the feedback on both sides of the scale

You will be fine, leave it and just take it easy for the first few klm. Rode an Ultra around Canada and many a morning was well below zero and a howlng wind no issues at all

Ken in Cairns
4 years ago

I'm pretty sure the factory cooler had a thermostat, the one I looked at definitely did, however I went with a Jag unit..
Hope you have some good layers, I used to ride on winter in Canberra, - 4 or so.

paulybronco
4 years ago

Quoting Ken in Cairns on 17 Mar 2020 11:29 PM
I'm pretty sure the factory cooler had a thermostat, the one I looked at definitely did, however I went with a Jag unit..
Hope you have some good layers, I used to ride on winter in Canberra, - 4 or so.

I know my factory fitted cooler does have one

speedzter
4 years ago

Quoting Ken in Cairns on 17 Mar 2020 06:57 AMedited: 17 Mar 2020 11:26 PM
A properly designed thermostat with by-pass should not add any restrictions to oil flow.
If your cooler had a thermostat no need to cover it, but you need to find out how if it does or doesn't as if it doesn't it could really under cool the oil.
Just an Engineers opinion.

Ken, as an "engineer" you should know the design of the Jag thermostat.
It is very restrictive, and the oil filter/cooler adapter is equally bad.
I run a Jag cooler, and tried to improve the adapter flow the best that I could by smoothing out the oil flow passages.

Ask 5 engineers for an opinion, and you will get 5 different opinions :-)
I won't even mention Bernoulli's principle.

beaglebasher
4 years ago

Quoting Nath103 on 16 Mar 2020 12:11 AM
Is it worth while making a block off plate for the oil cooler I fitted to my Breakout with it heading into the cooler months?

NO. Some people are guilty of overthinking things. I have been guilty of it in years gone by. But not now!
Why did you fit the cooler in the first place? If youre sitting at red lights a lot I suppose it might be beneficial but if you put in some decent oils and change them regularly there wont be a problem.

Do you have a specific temperature you would like the engine to run at?

Wideglider
4 years ago

Quoting Ken in Cairns on 17 Mar 2020 06:57 AMedited: 17 Mar 2020 11:26 PM
A properly designed thermostat with by-pass should not add any restrictions to oil flow.
If your cooler had a thermostat no need to cover it, but you need to find out how if it does or doesn't as if it doesn't it could really under cool the oil.
Just an Engineers opinion.

Quoting speedzter on 18 Mar 2020 08:34 AM
Ken, as an "engineer" you should know the design of the Jag thermostat.
It is very restrictive, and the oil filter/cooler adapter is equally bad.
I run a Jag cooler, and tried to improve the adapter flow the best that I could by smoothing out the oil flow passages.

Ask 5 engineers for an opinion, and you will get 5 different opinions :-)
I won't even mention Bernoulli's principle.

Nice animation speedzter.

Ken in Cairns
4 years ago

Well Speedster, with out actually taking measurements of the Jag unit I'm m not in a position to comment on you post about how restrictive it is.
Do you have any data showing how much added restriction it adds.
However thermistat design of any type sn't necessarily overly restrictive if designed and sized correctly, and I'm not saying the unit in question is or isn't, but having one myself I'm sure hoping the design engineers and the R&D team did their jobs correctly.
However simply adding it into the system and then the oil cooler will add some restriction to the system, it has to.
The oil cooler has turbulent flow to improve heat transfer, hopefully the oil passages are designed and sized correctly to reduce impediments to flow, the oil lines add length and will be a mixture of turbulent flow along the walls with a boundary layer and laminar flow in the centre, which also added some resistance to the system.
If you want to get right into it about flow restrictions in a piping system, I am happy to dig out some old math text books, but each and every bend adds restriction, as it addes vertual length to the system, and there are a lot of 45 and 90 degree bends in the oil system as it is without adding on the oil cooler and thermostat.
How much they add on as a percentage I am not in a position to answer, but Jag would probably know, however they may or may not disclose that information.
However the valve is operated by the wax diaphragm, not oil pressure,, and the valve doesn't have to lift that far to allow unimpeaded flow, there is a formula for lift vs flow, but I can't recall it off the top of my head.
I do also understand Bernoulli's principle very well, it is used a lot on the instrumentation I work with, and having done numerous classes at University on it, as part of fluid dynamics, along with other mind melting things line hydrodynamics, thermodynamics, mechanics and numerous other subjects in the same vein as part of my tertiary education.
I have also done a bit of aeronautical engineering which involves aerodynamics, which is just more fluid mechanics really.
O and I have a couple of advanced diplomas laying around along with, two trade cert 3's (diesel mechanic and fitter machinist) with advanced courses in pnumatics and hydraulics amongst others and then things like welding tickets and some other bits and bobs I have done along the way.
And that's without, and all the stuff I need for work, if you really want a quick summary of my qualifications.

Now given that it ( Bernoulli's principle) is basically a vacuum induced by flow through an orifice plate, or equivalent, on a port connected behind said orifice plate and given that the pressures on the supply outlet and return side from the circuit of your 4 port example should be virtually identical due to hydrodynamic first principles (provided there is not something not shown effecting the flow) I don't see how it is relevant to the discusdion at hand.
I like the animation you provided, although.i don't think it is the correct type of thermostat as used in the oil cooler by-pass, as your example is a full 4 port by-pass whereas (I'm pretty sure) the oil cooler uses a 3 port type, and both the outlets go to the same place eventually, the oil tank, (as I believe the filter is upstream of all this, as it should be in a well engineered system), it does not come back to the thermostat as shown in your example.
Happy to drag out some old text books, find the correct thermostat design as used in the oil cooler and draw the complete system circuit if you want to get right into the physics.
We are all stuck at home due to the apocalypse, apparently so it might pass the time.
Or I could just say fuck it, and go for a ride, or at least fuck about to n the shed doing something useful, I have ammo to reload :)

beaglebasher
4 years ago

what is this bernouli thing?

Smokey61
4 years ago

Quoting Nath103 on 16 Mar 2020 12:11 AM
Is it worth while making a block off plate for the oil cooler I fitted to my Breakout with it heading into the cooler months?

Depends on the temperature of your oil.

paulybronco
4 years ago

Quoting Nath103 on 16 Mar 2020 12:11 AM
Is it worth while making a block off plate for the oil cooler I fitted to my Breakout with it heading into the cooler months?

Quoting Smokey61 on 18 Mar 2020 09:24 PM
Depends on the temperature of your oil.

paulybronco
4 years ago

Topics

1/2

oil cooler and winter

oil cooler and winter

Nath103

paulybronco

Wideglider

paulybronco

paulybronco

speedzter

RossW

Ken in Cairns

Nath103

paulybronco

Ken in Cairns

paulybronco

speedzter

beaglebasher

Wideglider

Ken in Cairns

beaglebasher

Smokey61

paulybronco

paulybronco