14 SG Rough Idle, Stalling.

Topics

14 SG Rough Idle, Stalling.

1/2

Hound_Dog
3 years ago

Hi Guys, 14 SG was running perfectly, quiet, no issues. Stopped at a set of lights and suddenly rough idle, clattering noise from primary case, stalling. Hunts badly like a diesel engine and will rev between 1200 to below 900 and eventually stall. On start up will rev to 1800-2000rpm.

Checked so far.

It has fresh fuel
New Battery, tight terminals
New TMAP sensor
New CHT sensor
Fuel filter and all fuel lines checked inc inside tank
No frayed or damaged wires, all plugs checked
New inlet manifold seals
Spark plug wires and coil test within range
Crank Position sensor clean and plug, wires etc good.
New Spark Plugs
No vacuum leaks (rubber plug is good)
Cylinder temps measured and ok.
EITMS disabled.
Engine Compression checks within range.

Initially NO CODES were thrown. After installing new CHT Sensor it throws P0505, loss of idle speed control.

Any suggestions as to what should be checked/tested/replaced next would be very welcome. My sanity thanks you in advance.

Soapbox2627
3 years ago

Hound Dog
I have just paid $1985 (long story) to have a $29 bottle of intake and Carby cleaner go throgh Wendy'y 2011 RT Ltd Spyder
your symptoms sound simular to hers, carbon build up, now cleaned out, running good

Kris78
3 years ago

Quoting Hound_Dog on 16 Jul 2020 07:29 AM
Hi Guys, 14 SG was running perfectly, quiet, no issues. Stopped at a set of lights and suddenly rough idle, clattering noise from primary case, stalling. Hunts badly like a diesel engine and will rev between 1200 to below 900 and eventually stall. On start up will rev to 1800-2000rpm.

Checked so far.

It has fresh fuel
New Battery, tight terminals
New TMAP sensor
New CHT sensor
Fuel filter and all fuel lines checked inc inside tank
No frayed or damaged wires, all plugs checked
New inlet manifold seals
Spark plug wires and coil test within range
Crank Position sensor clean and plug, wires etc good.
New Spark Plugs
No vacuum leaks (rubber plug is good)
Cylinder temps measured and ok.
EITMS disabled.
Engine Compression checks within range.

Initially NO CODES were thrown. After installing new CHT Sensor it throws P0505, loss of idle speed control.

Any suggestions as to what should be checked/tested/replaced next would be very welcome. My sanity thanks you in advance.

IAC , you can clean them with Maf sensor cleaner
Or about $70 replace it with a new one..
My 12 fxst was idling high when I pulled up mine was dirty I cleaned it but that only lasted 2 weeks so I replaced mine no more issues , I have herd of bikes stalling when the IAC is shot

Worth a clean to start with and see how you go

Smokey61
3 years ago

Quoting Hound_Dog on 16 Jul 2020 07:29 AM
Hi Guys, 14 SG was running perfectly, quiet, no issues. Stopped at a set of lights and suddenly rough idle, clattering noise from primary case, stalling. Hunts badly like a diesel engine and will rev between 1200 to below 900 and eventually stall. On start up will rev to 1800-2000rpm.

Checked so far.

It has fresh fuel
New Battery, tight terminals
New TMAP sensor
New CHT sensor
Fuel filter and all fuel lines checked inc inside tank
No frayed or damaged wires, all plugs checked
New inlet manifold seals
Spark plug wires and coil test within range
Crank Position sensor clean and plug, wires etc good.
New Spark Plugs
No vacuum leaks (rubber plug is good)
Cylinder temps measured and ok.
EITMS disabled.
Engine Compression checks within range.

Initially NO CODES were thrown. After installing new CHT Sensor it throws P0505, loss of idle speed control.

Any suggestions as to what should be checked/tested/replaced next would be very welcome. My sanity thanks you in advance.

Quoting Kris78 on 16 Jul 2020 08:38 AMedited: 16 Jul 2020 08:41 AM
IAC , you can clean them with Maf sensor cleaner
Or about $70 replace it with a new one..
My 12 fxst was idling high when I pulled up mine was dirty I cleaned it but that only lasted 2 weeks so I replaced mine no more issues , I have herd of bikes stalling when the IAC is shot

Worth a clean to start with and see how you go

Yup, mine started the other day immediately after I filled up. Didn't want to start, wouldn't idle, slowing down on closed throttle you can hear it has no air going into it at all, pull up holding throttle slightly open. Today it was holding 1800 revs between shifts and while sitting, then back to normal. Figured it was IACV as I've had the same issue with my Triumph. It's times like these I miss carburettors.

Hound_Dog
3 years ago

Quoting Hound_Dog on 16 Jul 2020 07:29 AM
Hi Guys, 14 SG was running perfectly, quiet, no issues. Stopped at a set of lights and suddenly rough idle, clattering noise from primary case, stalling. Hunts badly like a diesel engine and will rev between 1200 to below 900 and eventually stall. On start up will rev to 1800-2000rpm.

Checked so far.

It has fresh fuel
New Battery, tight terminals
New TMAP sensor
New CHT sensor
Fuel filter and all fuel lines checked inc inside tank
No frayed or damaged wires, all plugs checked
New inlet manifold seals
Spark plug wires and coil test within range
Crank Position sensor clean and plug, wires etc good.
New Spark Plugs
No vacuum leaks (rubber plug is good)
Cylinder temps measured and ok.
EITMS disabled.
Engine Compression checks within range.

Initially NO CODES were thrown. After installing new CHT Sensor it throws P0505, loss of idle speed control.

Any suggestions as to what should be checked/tested/replaced next would be very welcome. My sanity thanks you in advance.

Quoting Kris78 on 16 Jul 2020 08:38 AMedited: 16 Jul 2020 08:41 AM
IAC , you can clean them with Maf sensor cleaner
Or about $70 replace it with a new one..
My 12 fxst was idling high when I pulled up mine was dirty I cleaned it but that only lasted 2 weeks so I replaced mine no more issues , I have herd of bikes stalling when the IAC is shot

Worth a clean to start with and see how you go

Thanks mate but they dont have IAC the have TMAP sensors and its been changed. Bloody frustrating.

Hound_Dog
3 years ago

Quoting Hound_Dog on 16 Jul 2020 07:29 AM
Hi Guys, 14 SG was running perfectly, quiet, no issues. Stopped at a set of lights and suddenly rough idle, clattering noise from primary case, stalling. Hunts badly like a diesel engine and will rev between 1200 to below 900 and eventually stall. On start up will rev to 1800-2000rpm.

Checked so far.

It has fresh fuel
New Battery, tight terminals
New TMAP sensor
New CHT sensor
Fuel filter and all fuel lines checked inc inside tank
No frayed or damaged wires, all plugs checked
New inlet manifold seals
Spark plug wires and coil test within range
Crank Position sensor clean and plug, wires etc good.
New Spark Plugs
No vacuum leaks (rubber plug is good)
Cylinder temps measured and ok.
EITMS disabled.
Engine Compression checks within range.

Initially NO CODES were thrown. After installing new CHT Sensor it throws P0505, loss of idle speed control.

Any suggestions as to what should be checked/tested/replaced next would be very welcome. My sanity thanks you in advance.

Quoting Kris78 on 16 Jul 2020 08:38 AMedited: 16 Jul 2020 08:41 AM
IAC , you can clean them with Maf sensor cleaner
Or about $70 replace it with a new one..
My 12 fxst was idling high when I pulled up mine was dirty I cleaned it but that only lasted 2 weeks so I replaced mine no more issues , I have herd of bikes stalling when the IAC is shot

Worth a clean to start with and see how you go

Quoting Smokey61 on 16 Jul 2020 09:20 AM
Yup, mine started the other day immediately after I filled up. Didn't want to start, wouldn't idle, slowing down on closed throttle you can hear it has no air going into it at all, pull up holding throttle slightly open. Today it was holding 1800 revs between shifts and while sitting, then back to normal. Figured it was IACV as I've had the same issue with my Triumph. It's times like these I miss carburettors.

Damn straight mate, I have 4 carb bikes including a Shovel The SG is my only modern Harley and it's a royal PITA!

Smokey61
3 years ago

Quoting Hound_Dog on 16 Jul 2020 07:29 AM
Hi Guys, 14 SG was running perfectly, quiet, no issues. Stopped at a set of lights and suddenly rough idle, clattering noise from primary case, stalling. Hunts badly like a diesel engine and will rev between 1200 to below 900 and eventually stall. On start up will rev to 1800-2000rpm.

Checked so far.

It has fresh fuel
New Battery, tight terminals
New TMAP sensor
New CHT sensor
Fuel filter and all fuel lines checked inc inside tank
No frayed or damaged wires, all plugs checked
New inlet manifold seals
Spark plug wires and coil test within range
Crank Position sensor clean and plug, wires etc good.
New Spark Plugs
No vacuum leaks (rubber plug is good)
Cylinder temps measured and ok.
EITMS disabled.
Engine Compression checks within range.

Initially NO CODES were thrown. After installing new CHT Sensor it throws P0505, loss of idle speed control.

Any suggestions as to what should be checked/tested/replaced next would be very welcome. My sanity thanks you in advance.

Quoting Kris78 on 16 Jul 2020 08:38 AMedited: 16 Jul 2020 08:41 AM
IAC , you can clean them with Maf sensor cleaner
Or about $70 replace it with a new one..
My 12 fxst was idling high when I pulled up mine was dirty I cleaned it but that only lasted 2 weeks so I replaced mine no more issues , I have herd of bikes stalling when the IAC is shot

Worth a clean to start with and see how you go

Quoting Hound_Dog on 16 Jul 2020 11:02 AM
Thanks mate but they dont have IAC the have TMAP sensors and its been changed. Bloody frustrating.

Will open up the manual later, are the TMAP sensors easy or cheap to replace?

Hound_Dog
3 years ago

Quoting Kris78 on 16 Jul 2020 08:38 AMedited: 16 Jul 2020 08:41 AM
IAC , you can clean them with Maf sensor cleaner
Or about $70 replace it with a new one..
My 12 fxst was idling high when I pulled up mine was dirty I cleaned it but that only lasted 2 weeks so I replaced mine no more issues , I have herd of bikes stalling when the IAC is shot

Worth a clean to start with and see how you go

Quoting Hound_Dog on 16 Jul 2020 11:02 AM
Thanks mate but they dont have IAC the have TMAP sensors and its been changed. Bloody frustrating.

Quoting Smokey61 on 16 Jul 2020 11:16 PM
Will open up the manual later, are the TMAP sensors easy or cheap to replace?

Yes cheap enough. Replaced it already mate. Very easy to change out.

Hound_Dog
3 years ago

Just an update for future reference. Primary cam chain tensioner was causing the issues.

paulybronco
3 years ago

Quoting Hound_Dog on 22 Jul 2020 12:47 AM
Just an update for future reference. Primary cam chain tensioner was causing the issues.

Really??

Smokey61
3 years ago

Quoting Hound_Dog on 22 Jul 2020 12:47 AM
Just an update for future reference. Primary cam chain tensioner was causing the issues.

Quoting paulybronco on 22 Jul 2020 01:20 AM
Really??

How would it cause a 2000 rpm idle?

Soapbox2627
3 years ago

Quoting Hound_Dog on 22 Jul 2020 12:47 AM
Just an update for future reference. Primary cam chain tensioner was causing the issues.

Quoting paulybronco on 22 Jul 2020 01:20 AM
Really??

Quoting Smokey61 on 22 Jul 2020 01:58 AM
How would it cause a 2000 rpm idle?

funny how they find these things

the wife's bike had all the same things, they said the cam chain was stretched and the guides and adjuster were stuffed, told me it would be $3500 to fix. they got the parts in from Canada, 8 weeks
lucky they had success on another bike and thought "lets give this a try before pulling out the engine", can of intake cleaner fixed it

Hound_Dog
3 years ago

Quoting Hound_Dog on 22 Jul 2020 12:47 AM
Just an update for future reference. Primary cam chain tensioner was causing the issues.

Quoting paulybronco on 22 Jul 2020 01:20 AM
Really??

Quoting Smokey61 on 22 Jul 2020 01:58 AM
How would it cause a 2000 rpm idle?

Only on start up. Lack of chain tension was throwing engine out of time. Changed tensioner, new oil and its as smooth as silk again. Makes me love my Evos and Shovel even more!

paulybronco
3 years ago

Quoting paulybronco on 22 Jul 2020 01:20 AM
Really??

Quoting Smokey61 on 22 Jul 2020 01:58 AM
How would it cause a 2000 rpm idle?

Quoting Hound_Dog on 23 Jul 2020 02:15 AM
Only on start up. Lack of chain tension was throwing engine out of time. Changed tensioner, new oil and its as smooth as silk again. Makes me love my Evos and Shovel even more!

Throwing engine out of time? Ummm not sure about that one.

Old Fatty
3 years ago

Quoting Smokey61 on 22 Jul 2020 01:58 AM
How would it cause a 2000 rpm idle?

Quoting Hound_Dog on 23 Jul 2020 02:15 AM
Only on start up. Lack of chain tension was throwing engine out of time. Changed tensioner, new oil and its as smooth as silk again. Makes me love my Evos and Shovel even more!

Quoting paulybronco on 23 Jul 2020 02:39 AM
Throwing engine out of time? Ummm not sure about that one.

I reckon he's talking about the cam chain tensioner not pumping up until the revs climb. A loose cam chain will give you variable valve timing when you don't want it.

markwoumla
3 years ago

Hound dog ,,, take a pic of the fucking thing you replaced ,,, that will get us all on the same page ,,,,,I'm getting a headache going from side to side of the engine ,,,,, Must say , it is an interesting situation you had happen !!!

Hound_Dog
3 years ago

Quoting markwoumla on 23 Jul 2020 05:09 AM
Hound dog ,,, take a pic of the fucking thing you replaced ,,, that will get us all on the same page ,,,,,I'm getting a headache going from side to side of the engine ,,,,, Must say , it is an interesting situation you had happen !!!

Hahahaha, sorry mate! Primary cam chain tensioner as indicated in the Harley service manual #3.

Hound_Dog
3 years ago

Quoting Smokey61 on 22 Jul 2020 01:58 AM
How would it cause a 2000 rpm idle?

Quoting Hound_Dog on 23 Jul 2020 02:15 AM
Only on start up. Lack of chain tension was throwing engine out of time. Changed tensioner, new oil and its as smooth as silk again. Makes me love my Evos and Shovel even more!

Quoting paulybronco on 23 Jul 2020 02:39 AM
Throwing engine out of time? Ummm not sure about that one.

You may want to think that comment through a little mate. ;)

markwoumla
3 years ago

Thanks for the clarification Hound dog ,,,,
Definitely not the first go to if you have rough idle and stalling symptoms .... We all hear , (and see), cam tensioners wearing , cracking before there time etc ,, but not very often hear the hydraulic tensioners failing from loss pump up capability, which can in your case cause timing troubles because of cam chain being to loose ... Good on you for figuring the problem out....
There is a small spring that installs behind the tensioner pad. I have heard that if spring is installed backwards , if can effect pump up capabilities..

Hound_Dog
3 years ago

Quoting markwoumla on 24 Jul 2020 05:39 AM
Thanks for the clarification Hound dog ,,,,
Definitely not the first go to if you have rough idle and stalling symptoms .... We all hear , (and see), cam tensioners wearing , cracking before there time etc ,, but not very often hear the hydraulic tensioners failing from loss pump up capability, which can in your case cause timing troubles because of cam chain being to loose ... Good on you for figuring the problem out....
There is a small spring that installs behind the tensioner pad. I have heard that if spring is installed backwards , if can effect pump up capabilities..

No problem mate. I have a small indy workshop and normally can diagnose most things very quickly. This had me really scratching my head. I knew the engine was out of time which was causing downstream issues as well. It is always the totally off beat stuff that fucks with your head!

Topics

1/2

14 SG Rough Idle, Stalling.

14 SG Rough Idle, Stalling.

Hound_Dog

Soapbox2627

Kris78

Smokey61

Hound_Dog

Hound_Dog

Smokey61

Hound_Dog

Hound_Dog

paulybronco

Smokey61

Soapbox2627

Hound_Dog

paulybronco

Old Fatty

markwoumla

Hound_Dog

Hound_Dog

markwoumla

Hound_Dog