What could it be?

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  • Wideglider
    Wideglider
    4 years ago
    Quoting MuscleBob on 20 May 2019 10:31 AM

    I'm assuming it regulates the voltage  traveling throughout the bike?

    Quoting paulybronco on 20 May 2019 10:32 AMedited: 20 May 2019 10:33 AM

    Regulator/Rectifier. The regulator/rectifier on your motorcycle performs two functions. The rectifier portion converts the AC power from the alternator into DC power so that it can charge the battery. The regulator ensures that the voltage is delivered within certain limits, as not to damage the battery. So when thats fucked , like mine did twice i saw the volt guage hit 17 v several times

    Quoting MuscleBob on 20 May 2019 10:40 AM

    Now that you've explained that, I understand where you're coming from in regards to the strain on the regulator. What I'm trying to understand is the battery boiling?

    It boils from over-charging because the regulator is not regulating anymore.
  • MuscleBob
    MuscleBob
    4 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 20 May 2019 10:32 AMedited: 20 May 2019 10:33 AM

    Regulator/Rectifier. The regulator/rectifier on your motorcycle performs two functions. The rectifier portion converts the AC power from the alternator into DC power so that it can charge the battery. The regulator ensures that the voltage is delivered within certain limits, as not to damage the battery. So when thats fucked , like mine did twice i saw the volt guage hit 17 v several times

    Quoting MuscleBob on 20 May 2019 10:40 AM

    Now that you've explained that, I understand where you're coming from in regards to the strain on the regulator. What I'm trying to understand is the battery boiling?

    Quoting Wideglider on 20 May 2019 10:44 AM

    It boils from over-charging because the regulator is not regulating anymore.

    Yeah I'm with you now. So what you're saying is because the old regulator wasn't performing correctly it may have damaged the battery? Thus in turn putting a new battery in may reduce the chance of it happening again? Sorry mate I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.
    I'll run it by them, but I can see them trying to cut the cost of a new battery. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting MuscleBob on 20 May 2019 10:31 AM

    I'm assuming it regulates the voltage  traveling throughout the bike?

    Quoting paulybronco on 20 May 2019 10:32 AMedited: 20 May 2019 10:33 AM

    Regulator/Rectifier. The regulator/rectifier on your motorcycle performs two functions. The rectifier portion converts the AC power from the alternator into DC power so that it can charge the battery. The regulator ensures that the voltage is delivered within certain limits, as not to damage the battery. So when thats fucked , like mine did twice i saw the volt guage hit 17 v several times

    Quoting MuscleBob on 20 May 2019 10:40 AM

    Now that you've explained that, I understand where you're coming from in regards to the strain on the regulator. What I'm trying to understand is the battery boiling?

    Ok lets numb it down a touch....if you put your/any battery on charge  overnight in the morning the battery would be warmer to the touch than before the charge due to a chemical reaction inside the battery. The charger regulates the flow of charge to the battery in a very controlled way over a very specific voltage level. Now when that voltage is raised beyond the specific voltage, this is the function of the regulator rectifier on the bike, the temp inside the battery increases due to an increase OVER the controlled voltage and that chemical reaction increases causing the battery to get hotter and hotter, hence the boiling comment. Hope this helps
  • MuscleBob
    MuscleBob
    4 years ago
    Quoting paulybronco on 20 May 2019 10:32 AMedited: 20 May 2019 10:33 AM

    Regulator/Rectifier. The regulator/rectifier on your motorcycle performs two functions. The rectifier portion converts the AC power from the alternator into DC power so that it can charge the battery. The regulator ensures that the voltage is delivered within certain limits, as not to damage the battery. So when thats fucked , like mine did twice i saw the volt guage hit 17 v several times

    Quoting MuscleBob on 20 May 2019 10:40 AM

    Now that you've explained that, I understand where you're coming from in regards to the strain on the regulator. What I'm trying to understand is the battery boiling?

    Quoting paulybronco on 20 May 2019 11:12 AM

    Ok lets numb it down a touch....if you put your/any battery on charge  overnight in the morning the battery would be warmer to the touch than before the charge due to a chemical reaction inside the battery. The charger regulates the flow of charge to the battery in a very controlled way over a very specific voltage level. Now when that voltage is raised beyond the specific voltage, this is the function of the regulator rectifier on the bike, the temp inside the battery increases due to an increase OVER the controlled voltage and that chemical reaction increases causing the battery to get hotter and hotter, hence the boiling comment. Hope this helps

    Yeah thanks. 
  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting MuscleBob on 20 May 2019 10:40 AM

    Now that you've explained that, I understand where you're coming from in regards to the strain on the regulator. What I'm trying to understand is the battery boiling?

    Quoting Wideglider on 20 May 2019 10:44 AM

    It boils from over-charging because the regulator is not regulating anymore.

    Quoting MuscleBob on 20 May 2019 11:12 AM

    Yeah I'm with you now. So what you're saying is because the old regulator wasn't performing correctly it may have damaged the battery? Thus in turn putting a new battery in may reduce the chance of it happening again? Sorry mate I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

    I'll run it by them, but I can see them trying to cut the cost of a new battery. 

    Bob a new battery is not going to fix a fucked regulator or protect a new regulator. If the battery has been damaged/boiled it stands a good chance of a premature failure in the future
  • Wideglider
    Wideglider
    4 years ago
    Quoting MuscleBob on 20 May 2019 10:40 AM

    Now that you've explained that, I understand where you're coming from in regards to the strain on the regulator. What I'm trying to understand is the battery boiling?

    Quoting Wideglider on 20 May 2019 10:44 AM

    It boils from over-charging because the regulator is not regulating anymore.

    Quoting MuscleBob on 20 May 2019 11:12 AM

    Yeah I'm with you now. So what you're saying is because the old regulator wasn't performing correctly it may have damaged the battery? Thus in turn putting a new battery in may reduce the chance of it happening again? Sorry mate I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

    I'll run it by them, but I can see them trying to cut the cost of a new battery. 

    Getting there, yes, regulator may have either damaged the battery of just left it undercharged. 
    You just have to see the 'cause & effect' here.
    A new battery may not be necessary, hopefully they will charge it then load test it to determine if it is still ok.
    If they have determined the rectifier/regulator was at fault and changed it you should be ok. 
  • brucefxdl
    brucefxdl
    4 years ago
    the heat from over charging is the killer,not only does it boil off the electrolyte and lower its level,which reduces the ability to "create " the required voltage/current,the risk of buckling the plates in the cells is increased,which may result in a shorted cell,which equals a dead cell/battery. the regulator/rectifier,as pb pointed out,is the crucial link in the charge system,along with other bits of course. cheers  
  • tussuck
    tussuck
    4 years ago

    So where did this end up? 

    Step 1:  measure voltage at battery when idling / revving up.  Should not really exceed 14 volts and if your hitting 17 or higher then the regulator is toast.

    Step 2: If at 17 volts and its been like this for a while and your having intermittent issues with a flat battery or starting then its 99% sure that your battery is now toast as well.  Resist the urge to try and salvage it as that can quickly become a rabbit hole of grief (for $100 you can get a new one either on eBay or from a battery shop)

    Step 3: If @ 17volts then replace the regulator AND make sure you test the outputs of the Stator to make sure its operating inside specs (they can put out 20-50volts AC when going and depending upon brand)

    Double check ALL cables as well.  A loose cable from Stator to Reg to Battery will fry a regulator as the spikes they cause are regulator killers.  This include your main earths as well.

  • paulybronco
    paulybronco
    4 years ago
    Quoting tussuck on 21 May 2019 12:10 AMedited: 21 May 2019 12:11 AM

    So where did this end up? 

    Step 1:  measure voltage at battery when idling / revving up.  Should not really exceed 14 volts and if your hitting 17 or higher then the regulator is toast.

    Step 2: If at 17 volts and its been like this for a while and your having intermittent issues with a flat battery or starting then its 99% sure that your battery is now toast as well.  Resist the urge to try and salvage it as that can quickly become a rabbit hole of grief (for $100 you can get a new one either on eBay or from a battery shop)

    Step 3: If @ 17volts then replace the regulator AND make sure you test the outputs of the Stator to make sure its operating inside specs (they can put out 20-50volts AC when going and depending upon brand)

    Double check ALL cables as well.  A loose cable from Stator to Reg to Battery will fry a regulator as the spikes they cause are regulator killers.  This include your main earths as well.

    Think the OP said it was headed to the shop today.  He Seems to need convincing that that battery may be roasted and to get them to replace it as well, hopefully we get to hear an outcome
  • MuscleBob
    MuscleBob
    4 years ago
    Picked the Slim up today and she's running fine Thanks for all the advice fellas. . 
  • Bigfella
    Bigfella
    4 years ago
    12V Battery SOC FYI

  • Wideglider
    Wideglider
    4 years ago
    Quoting MuscleBob on 25 May 2019 07:47 AMedited: 25 May 2019 07:47 AM

    Picked the Slim up today and she's running fine Thanks for all the advice fellas. . 

    Glad you're up and running again MB, but what was the diagnosis & fix from the dealer. 
    I assume thay replaced regulator, did they say battery was ok after they charged it, did they load test it?
  • MuscleBob
    MuscleBob
    4 years ago
    Quoting MuscleBob on 25 May 2019 07:47 AMedited: 25 May 2019 07:47 AM

    Picked the Slim up today and she's running fine Thanks for all the advice fellas. . 

    Quoting Wideglider on 25 May 2019 10:30 AM

    Glad you're up and running again MB, but what was the diagnosis & fix from the dealer. 

    I assume thay replaced regulator, did they say battery was ok after they charged it, did they load test it?

    Yeah he said they tested it and it was fine. Took it for a spin out to Kenilworth and no problems. 
  • MuscleBob
    MuscleBob
    4 years ago
    Here we go again. 
    Here we


  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    It could be a few things, regs gone bad again, stator, faulty ignition switch, ignition switch plug loose, pins pulled back or wiring, loose battery cables, battery earth strap not earthing to bike because of powdercoat, might even be your taillight wiring has come adrift, got rubbed by the tyre and is shorting, probably a few others as well, throwing any codes?
  • MuscleBob
    MuscleBob
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 09 Jun 2019 01:32 AM

    It could be a few things, regs gone bad again, stator, faulty ignition switch, ignition switch plug loose, pins pulled back or wiring, loose battery cables, battery earth strap not earthing to bike because of powdercoat, might even be your taillight wiring has come adrift, got rubbed by the tyre and is shorting, probably a few others as well, throwing any codes?

    Battery nearly 13V at stand still, and is pulling around 16.8V when cranked over GM.
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 09 Jun 2019 01:32 AM

    It could be a few things, regs gone bad again, stator, faulty ignition switch, ignition switch plug loose, pins pulled back or wiring, loose battery cables, battery earth strap not earthing to bike because of powdercoat, might even be your taillight wiring has come adrift, got rubbed by the tyre and is shorting, probably a few others as well, throwing any codes?

    Quoting MuscleBob on 09 Jun 2019 01:35 AM

    Battery nearly 13V at stand still, and is pulling around 16.8V when cranked over GM.

    Regs toast again, back to the dealer Bob.
  • MuscleBob
    MuscleBob
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 09 Jun 2019 01:32 AM

    It could be a few things, regs gone bad again, stator, faulty ignition switch, ignition switch plug loose, pins pulled back or wiring, loose battery cables, battery earth strap not earthing to bike because of powdercoat, might even be your taillight wiring has come adrift, got rubbed by the tyre and is shorting, probably a few others as well, throwing any codes?

    Quoting MuscleBob on 09 Jun 2019 01:35 AM

    Battery nearly 13V at stand still, and is pulling around 16.8V when cranked over GM.

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 09 Jun 2019 01:41 AM

    Regs toast again, back to the dealer Bob.

    I'm thinking wiring issue?
  • MuscleBob
    MuscleBob
    4 years ago
    Quoting Grease Monkey on 09 Jun 2019 01:32 AM

    It could be a few things, regs gone bad again, stator, faulty ignition switch, ignition switch plug loose, pins pulled back or wiring, loose battery cables, battery earth strap not earthing to bike because of powdercoat, might even be your taillight wiring has come adrift, got rubbed by the tyre and is shorting, probably a few others as well, throwing any codes?

    Quoting MuscleBob on 09 Jun 2019 01:35 AM

    Battery nearly 13V at stand still, and is pulling around 16.8V when cranked over GM.

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 09 Jun 2019 01:41 AM

    Regs toast again, back to the dealer Bob.

    I'm thinking wiring issue?
  • Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    4 years ago
    Quoting MuscleBob on 09 Jun 2019 01:35 AM

    Battery nearly 13V at stand still, and is pulling around 16.8V when cranked over GM.

    Quoting Grease Monkey on 09 Jun 2019 01:41 AM

    Regs toast again, back to the dealer Bob.

    Quoting MuscleBob on 09 Jun 2019 01:46 AM

    I'm thinking wiring issue?

    Something is killing the reg, bad earth can do it, but if your getting 16+ volts it's gone again.
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